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Why Feminism and Christianity Can’t Mix

By: Kristen Clark

Let’s play a quick game. It’s called “What comes to mind when you hear the word?” Here we go.

First word: Men.

What came to mind? Be honest.

Next word. Marriage.

What popped into your head?

Next word: Equality

Hmmm…that’ll get a variety of thoughts. What’d you think of?

Last word: Feminism

Oh yeah. Now we’re getting controversial.

What was the first thing that popped into your head when you read that word?

Great job! You successfully played your first game of “What comes to mind when you hear the word?”

If I played that game in a large auditorium with 50,000 women from all walks of life, the answers would be shockingly diverse. Especially when it comes to the word feminism. This word is controversial to say the least.

Feminism is an interesting topic though because nobody can quite seem to nail down its definition.

You know why? Because it has dozens and dozens of definitions. It wears a lot of hats.

A woman who claims to be a feminist could affiliate with one or more of the following camps:

  • Liberal Feminism
  • Radical Feminism
  • Marxist and Socialist Feminism
  • Moderate Feminism
  • Postmodern Feminism
  • Separatist Feminism
  • Cultural Feminism
  • Eco-Feminism

And many, many others. They keep evolving as time goes on. All of these titles mean something a little different too. It’s hard to keep up.

There’s one common camp I haven’t mentioned yet. It’s the most widely advertised camp and seems to be the one Christian women tend to join.

It’s called equality feminism.

After blogging on a topic about feminism we (GirlDefined) usually receive one or two emails from girls saying things like, “Feminism is a great thing! It fights for equality between men and women.” Or, “You are harming women by opposing feminism!”

In fact, one girl recently wrote us a long comment explaining why feminism is so great. She said, “Feminism is essentially about creating more opportunities for women than previous generations had.”

She obviously aligns with the camp of “equality feminism.” And I can see why. Equality feminism sounds good. Really good.

So is there anything wrong with being a Christian woman and labeling yourself as a feminist?

Well, let’s check out the definition of equality feminism. Read it slowly. “equality feminism focuses on gaining equality between men and women in all domains (work, home, sexuality, law).”

Sounds good.

But did you catch that? Equality feminism focuses on gaining equality in all domains. In a nutshell it means this: Equality for women won’t happen until all traditional gender roles in all domains are equal…as in the same. We’re not equal with men until women can freely swap lifestyles and roles with them.

In most feminists’ eyes, equality means women must have the same jobs as men. Same life plans as men. Same roles in marriage as men. Same roles in parenting as men.

Am I wrong?

Ask any woman who claims to be a feminist if she is in favor of a wife submitting to her husband in marriage. She will rarely say yes. Why? Because she believes equality with men means sameness.

Equality feminism clothes herself in a charming outfit with a warm smile and says, “We’re just innocent, harmless women…all we really desire is to be viewed as equally valuable as men.”

If that’s truly all feminism was concerned about, this post could end in the next paragraph. But it’s not. Not even close. Feminism always puts the “equality” front towards the camera because it’s the most attractive side.

And that’s exactly why we receive emails from Christian girls asking why we’re against feminism.

They see the enchanting tip of the feminist iceberg and wonder, “Why is a Christian website like GirlDefined against women having equal value as men?”

If these girls took a quick second to poke their heads underwater, they would quickly see the gigantic mass hiding underneath.

The fact is, GirlDefined is 100% in favor of equality between men and women. That should be obvious. We even wrote an article on it (here). And you know what? We didn’t think of it first and neither did feminism.

God did.

From the beginning of time God clearly stated that “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them” (Genesis 1:27).

Equally valuable humans.

BUT…

It doesn’t end there.

The man and the woman were created by God to be equal in value but different in roles. God didn’t design us to be the same. He didn’t design us to do all the same things. He created one male and one female with differing roles and jobs.

He created two different genders on purpose and for a purpose.

Most feminists aren’t too fond of God’s design for gender.

They don’t like the idea of the man being dubbed as the primary leader, initiator, and provider. They don’t like the idea of Eve being created as a helper to Adam. They just don’t like these things.

Feminism has rejected God as the ultimate authority for life and instead placed herself on the throne. The god of feminism pridefully says, “I know better than God and will live out my womanhood how I think is best.”

In addition to not liking God’s design for gender, equality feminism stands for far more than it’s friendly name suggests. If you do a little homework you’ll quickly discover how many other “women’s rights” issues equality feminism promotes. Let’s dive beneath the surface to see how big and narley this iceberg really is.

Right NOW (today) almost all feminist groups strongly stand for the following:

  • A woman’s right to abort (murder) her unborn baby.
  • Lesbianism and the right for women to marry women.
  • Complete liberation from sexual boundaries and morals.
  • Freedom from traditional gender roles in marriage.
  • Rejection of God as the ultimate authority in life.

The average American would agree that most feminists strongly stand for the above causes. I don’t know about you, but those are some serious anti-biblical “rights.” Right?

If you currently claim to be a feminist, I hope you will carefully consider what that word means and what it’s largely associated with.

Here’s the hard to swallow truth: As a Christian woman, you can’t agree 100% with God’s Word and agree 100% with feminism at the same time. They just don’t mix in most areas. In fact, if we threw all of the feminist ideologies into the same pot, the Bible would strongly oppose 99% of it.

At its root, feminism is built upon a foundation completely devoid of God. The feminist movement is woven with the same sin Satan committed in the beginning. A rebellious heart that pridefully says, “I don’t need you, God. Thanks, but I’ll do things my way.”

When we reject God’s created order and purposes for our lives as women, we will not find lasting happiness.

We will not find lasting fulfillment. We will not find lasting peace. Why? Because as C.S. Lewis says, “God cannot give us a happiness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there. There is no such thing.”

A secular study published in the UK Daily Mail confirmed this fact as well, “Women are less happy nowadays despite 40 years of feminism, a new study claims. Despite having more opportunities than ever before, they have a lower sense of well-being and life satisfaction.”

We don’t need feminism to inform us of our worth and value.

God already says we’re equally valuable. We don’t need to become feminists to promote this area of biblical teaching. What we do need is to lovingly show all women how valuable and precious they are to God. We need to re-embrace God’s design for marriage, family, dignity of life, and sexuality. We need to repent of our pride and accept God’s Word as the authority in our lives.

Feminism has never offered a solution that the Bible hasn’t already taken care of.

God’s Word has all the answers we need. In Christ, we (men and women) will find all the fulfillment, worth, value and purpose this life has to offer.

How about you? Where do you stand?

  • In what ways has the ideology of feminism seeped into your worldview? Do you need to repent of having a heart of pride before God?
  • Do you look to feminism to answer your questions about womanhood? If so, have their answers satisfied you?
  • What mindset changes do you need to make so God’s Word becomes the authority in your life?
  • Will you take a step of obedience by trusting your Creator’s design for your womanhood?

I’d love to chat about this topic with you below! Feel free to share what’s on your mind.

Photo credit: www.flickr.com | 25062265

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  • Jullyetta Erikowa

    I love this article. If only more women looked at feminism this way. I feel being a woman is unique, just the way God created her.

  • Elizabeth Williams

    Wow, great post! I never realized there were THAT many types of feminism. And you know, we think of feminism of being a social or political issue, when really, it’s a spiritual issue. Your blog has really helped me out a lot about understanding the importance of gender and really being able to have a firm foundation for my beliefs. I remember reading your blog post about equality not being the same as sameness(don’t remember the exact title). That is a blog post that really sticks out for me, and I’m really thankful for reading it!

  • Justme

    Thanks for this post, helped me understand a little more about feminism 🙂 sometimes I feel pressure (especially at work but my immediate family doesn’t pressure me like this) that I need to be the one in control and to take that control. But really God is the one who is in control and I want to be submissive to Him, and one day I pray that God will bring a man in my life, whom I can submit to, knowing that ultimately I’m submitting to God too. Don’t know if that makes sense but hopefully you see what I’m trying to say 🙂

  • Claire

    I’ve never had any pressure in my life with this issue up to now, but I will definitely keep this in mind when I go off to college this fall. I’ll be attending a state university and with that comes the potential brainwashing…

    • Azi

      My two cents, so take this with a grain of salt: question everything. If something doesn’t seem right to you, ask and see where the other person is coming from. People who care enough about what others have to say will listen to you, even if they won’t necessarily change their minds. Don’t be afraid to explain why you believe what you believe, but do it out of honesty–doing something just to look better than someone else will show.

      Also, pray, pray, pray, and pray. Oh, I did I mention pray? 😉

    • First Amendment

      Hope you’re doing well. Most colleges tend to be liberal, but this is a great thing if you want to strengthen your faith. Debate is a really healthy way to deepen your understanding of not just your personal convictions, but those of your peers and professors.

      With that being said, everyone should believe in the basic tenets of feminism– don’t see how this is “brainwashing.”

    • Victoria

      I think you’ll find that there is very little brainwashing that happens in public universities. You may encounter different beliefs, but I think you will find, as I have, that many of the people are there because they want to help you learn and not to push an agenda onto you.

  • Ann

    I think the major reason why we shouldn’t fully approve of the modern day feminist agenda is their belief of “sexual liberation”. I think this somewhat correlates to the high divorce rates and breakdown of the family today.

  • Azi

    Kristen,

    Thanks for posting. I think that the thing that you and I
    undoubtedly agree with is that women and men aren’t expected to live the same
    kinds of lives. Much of this blog encourages women to have the right to be
    wives and mothers, helping their husbands and children, and I’m definitely for
    that! I think that we need to promote this message, especially since many women
    don’t see the value in being women who give their lives to their family. To say
    that there aren’t any differences between men and women at all is
    narrow-minded, in my opinion. And I strongly believe that the sexual revolution
    and push towards abortion have made many women miserable.

    But isn’t it true that we had that choice from the very
    beginning—that as Christians men are women are called equally to live towards
    God’s word, even if we don’t do the same things? And isn’t that technically
    what the core of “feminism” is, even with its distortions?

    In this way I wouldn’t call rebelling against God-defined
    roles “feminism.” True feminism, I think, really isn’t supposed to “re-define”
    anything. It’s more a vehicle for action—allowing women to have opportunities
    rather than keep them away from them. I would say it’s a terminology difference
    than anything else, although the principles are the same.

    Lately I’ve been doing some thinking about why women have a
    problem with being helpers to males. I think it’s because “helper”
    automatically assumes that females have to be the second-place and that they can’t
    fulfill as much as males. In reality, though, you see tons of women (and godly
    women, for that matter) doing their jobs independently and well without having husbands, assuming that “helper” refers to women in marriage.

    So if anything it’s having a problem with that particular role of women that’s the problem. But I would say that neither a man nor a woman are superior in a marriage, and “helper” is used so women realize that they can’t be the controlling ones in relationships—just as much as men can’t be controlling to their wives.

    • Sara

      I would definitely say that the main problem with “complementarianism” as I’ve often heard it referred to as is that it defines womanhood solely in relation to men. A woman’s main purpose in life is to be a helper to a man and have children so at the end of the day it really ends up only being applicable to married women who have biological children. Single women and childless/infertile women end up being left out of the equation and not seen as Real Women because they aren’t fulfilling the roles of wife and mother. It seems rather alienating. That is another reason why I think feminism is important. It affirms the worth of women whether they are married or not or childless or not. Feminism says that it’s okay to be yourself, and not that you have to live up to a certain standard to be labeled worthy. It offers women more choices while still affirming their right to have families if they want. (Not really sure where this notion that feminists hate marriage/family came from but it’s not true.)

      • Clarissa

        But they could adopt children! 🙂

        • Sara

          Adoption is great and I am all for it if that is what a couple feels called to do. However, I still think it is important to make sure that women know that they are important and have value even if they don’t have/can’t have children. Or if they don’t have a husband. Centering everything around marriage and children is still alienating to many. And sadly I think many young Christian women start thinking that there is something wrong with them and that they are defective or not fulfilling God’s purpose for them if they can’t get pregnant or find a husband. They need to know that they still matter even if they don’t have those things. I really don’t think most complementarians do a good job of getting that message across. Even a lot of articles aimed at single women are about how to become more marriageable or how get a guy to ask you out and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of focus on the idea that you can live a happy fulfilling life as a single woman or about fostering independence and self worth as an individual. To me this is a problem.

          • Rosalie

            Hey, Sara! 🙂
            Just a couple quick thoughts I had after reading your comments. 🙂
            1) It is not the culture’s job to affirm men OR women. Christian men and women need to be finding their value and importance in Christ.
            2) It’s not a sin per ce for girls to ask guys out, but it does rub against the grain of our original design. Ladies were made to be the helpmeets of the guys. Guys were made to protect and lead us ladies. The problem with girls asking guys out is that it sets the girls up as the initiator/driving force in the relationship emotionally, spiritually, and physically when men are supposed to be doing the leading.
            Anyway, just a couple thoughts. 🙂 🙂

          • Sara

            1) I never said that it was culture’s job to affirm anybody, only that feminism teaches that girls have inherent value whether or not they conform to expectations put on them by religion or culture. The religious jargon preached on this websites says that a girl’s worth comes from her ability to have children and be a “helper” to a man and that’s it. I think this is harmful to girls as it does not allow them to foster their own individual identities apart from the narrow restrictions and expectations put on them.
            2) I don’t buy into the idea that something as silly as asking someone out on a date sets the tone for the whole relationship. Nor do I buy into the idea that relationships need to have leaders and followers. And if you actually think that girls are not allowed to actually take initive in their lives and relationships I think that is extra sad. But the more I read here the more I realize you all seem to think it’s still 1955 rather than 2015 and gender roles are apparently the key to salvation. I think that line of thinking is bizarre and it just getting more and more bizarre by the minute. So I’m out.

          • Azi

            Although the reason why I do like the idea of a guy asking out a girl, I find it difficult to generalize and say that’s how it SHOULD be done.

            Maybe we could argue that since it’s been done before and a lot of good relationships have come out of it, it’s a good thing. But on the other hand, that doesn’t guarantee a good relationship either.

            Even if we say that men are “natural” chasers, should we still say that women shouldn’t ask men out? Maybe it would be better to encourage women to let things take course in a relationship and slowly reveal feelings as things progress.

            I don’t know; I’m getting off-topic, but I’m having trouble explaining this to myself because I’ve never been in that position of having to ask a guy out before. But who knows what will happen? I guess it’ll take a couple of years before I find out. XD

          • Rosalie

            Good thoughts, Azi! 🙂 (Btw – I think your name is super cute.:))
            I agree that it doesn’t guarantee a good relationship, but what does?
            I’m in the same boat with you: I’ve never been in the position of asking a guy out either. 🙂 🙂

      • First Amendment

        I agree with you. A major problem with the complement belief is that it judges women on male terms.

  • Hi Kristen,

    Thanks for the awesome post! I had a quick question, though. Have you taken a look at the book “Jesus Feminist” by Sarah Bessey? I have not read it, but I know people who have and have said that they really liked it. Granted, these people are on the more… progressive side, but I was still curious none the less. If you have read it, do you have any thoughts on it?

    • Hey Alli, I have not read “Jesus Feminist” so cannot speak from personal experience. However, many Bible teachers and leaders I respect seem to have many cautions about this book. I encourage you to read this review: http://cbmw.org/book-reviews/jesus-feminist-by-sarah-bessey/

      • Victoria

        Your beliefs should be strong enough to be able to handle contrasting opinions. I would be hesitant to write off something based on what others are telling you – even people you trust can be wrong sometimes. As you are in a position of leadership over many girls through this blog, you would do well to fully research your opinions before making claims. “Jesus Feminist” is a beautiful book that is based in a love of Scripture and I would highly recommend reading it.

  • Abby

    Found your website via a link on Twitter and I absolutely love it. I’ve been an anti-feminist for a while and your articles are awesome. I so agree with this one, especially. I love that you brought up abortion. You may already know this, but Live Action has uncovered several instances of Planned Parenthood covering up rape/sex trafficking. Very sad stuff.
    I would only add two things to this (and you may very well have already covered them elsewhere), those being the selfishness behind modern feminism and its constant lying. I am constantly seeing American feminists spout the lie that American women are oppressed–a downright lie– while using a wage gap they made up to prove their point. They love to tell you that they care about all women, but their actions speak much louder than their words. Their focus is constantly on themselves, crying oppression and sexism over ridiculous things, while ignoring women across the world in places like the Middle East endure horrors that we American women cannot even begin to imagine. To see that selfishness, that complete ignorance of women who truly DO need someone to stand up for them, breaks my heart.
    Anyway, this article (and the others I’ve read) is fantastic. Thanks for not being afraid to speak the truth! 🙂

    • Hey Abby, so glad you found us through Twitter! Thanks for stopping by and commenting. You make some really eye opening points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

    • First Amendment

      The wage gap is very real; a lot of it stems from the fact that success and likability are positively correlated for men and negatively for women. This means that society likes successful men but hates successful women. I suggest you read Sheryl Sandberg’s book entitled “Lean In.” She’s a wonderful woman who worked at Google and served as the COO of Facebook.

      Feminism is not limited to the U.S. Thankfully, we live in a country where women aren’t forced to undergo genital mutilation, where women can vote, where women aren’t raped, where women aren’t shot for going to school… But feminists do realize the dire need of societal change in countries that practice such archaic and oppressive laws for women. International Women’s Day is coming up in a few weeks on Tuesday, March 8. Support women’s causes with me!

      There are a ton of wonderful women’s ministries. I’ve donated in the past– you can choose to send a girl to school, to sponsor a girl, to pay for a girl (this will help her avoid being sold into human trafficking).

      While you may not see the validity of feminism in your own country (perhaps you’re not working yet), when you denounce feminism like you did it makes the struggle that women face all over the world less important.

      “We cannot all succeed when half of us are held back.”
      – Malala Yousafzai

  • Bronté

    This post is really great. Two question though. 1. Are you saying that feminism and equality feminism are two different things? and 2. Is it okay to be a feminist instead of equality feminist?
    God bless. 😀

    • Hey Bronte, thanks for reading this post. In answer to your two questions: 1. Equality feminism is STILL feminism, but just a particular group that doesn’t want to be associated with some of the more extreme feminists. 2. I personally don’t believe it’s good for a Christian woman to align with ANY feminist group (including equality feminism) because of what they stand for as a whole. By and large, feminism fights for things that are 100% opposed to God’s Word such as: Abortion, homosexuality, sexual liberation, and so much more.

      • harshika swarup

        I respectfully beg to disagree. Not all feminists, whatever type they may be identifying with, support that list you give. I have met plenty of them who dont espouse abortion or homosexuality etc. i am a born again christian feminist and am dismayed by how small and narrow your definition of feminism is. Like any movement, feminism has its problems. Just like even the church has. I would like to know if you have ever travelled to the middle east or south asia? And seen the state of women in these regions? If you have, then i am surprised you still denounce feminism which has done so much for us women in these parts. If you haven’t, then we can talk more after you have witnessed first hand the plight of these women. We are talking about female genital mutilation, child marriages, dowry deaths, female foeticide, honour killings, high rates of assault and rape, everyday discrimination in families and homes… What in the world are you talking about!!!!???

        • Andrew

          “female genital mutilation, child marriages, dowry deaths, female foeticide, honour killings, high rates of assault and rape, everyday discrimination in families and homes”

          That is why Christians need to reach out with God’s love to these broken societies. Remember, Mark 12:30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31″The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

          What these people need to Christianity not feminism.

          • First Amendment

            Feminism is necessary to elevate women out of societies that oppress them. The goal of feminism and Christianity is the same: to treat women with respect. It’s so hard for people here to see this. At the end of the day, feminism and Christianity promote the same ideas of respect and love.

      • First Amendment

        Feminists stand for equality. That’s the base. Anything else is a matter of personal opinion.

        There are feminists who vote Republican.
        There are feminists who vote Democrat.
        There are feminists who believe in traditional marriage.
        There are feminists who believe in all marriage.

        To think that feminists “largely fight for thing 100% opposed to God’s Word” is really akin to thinking that all Muslims are “largely” terrorists.

  • Feminists have principles against the throne , and of God’s character :
    Abortion – God knows you exist before you were born . And you agree with abortion ? ( Jeremiah 1 : 5; Matthew 05:21 )
    Homosexuality is the lack of concrete identity in God ; rebellion (Deuteronomy 23:17 ; Leviticus 18:22 ; 20:13 )
    Lust and sexual liberation – is opposed to the holiness of God ( Galatians 5: 19-21 )
    Against submission of the wife to her husband – is a principle against the authority of God ( Ephesians 5:22 )

    After all these verses , you still supports feminism ? May God give you a broken heart to change their distorted concepts!

    • Christian feminists will actually agree with all these texts! Abortion, homosexuality, lust, are not feminism. Some feminists and some sexists support it. Some feminists and some sexists do not.

      “Sexual liberation” , supported by some feminists and some sexists, with other feminists and sexist not supporting it, is an idea that women’s sexual activities should be judged as liberally and forgivingly as those of men with power. The Christian idea, of course, is that God is equally against, but equally forgiving of, the sexual transgressions of men and women. Believers with double standards for men and women on this are sexists. The Christian has to know – and the Christian feminist knows – to sexually follow the will of God – and God does not have double standards on this.
      As for submission, Christian feminists believe all believers should submit to one another. (Eph 5:21) That means Christian wives should submit as Eph 5:22 say, and Christian husbands should submit as the combination of “love your wife” and “love does not seek its own way” say.

    • Little old LOL me

      After reading this Melissa, I didn’t even have to guess that you are likely non-white; you look much like my EX-wife actually. Anyway, what you share will go in one eye-ear and out the other among feminists but, God is with you so please continue to share natural truths.

    • First Amendment

      “Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.”

  • Andrea

    I too used to believe in the headship/submission form of marriage. But now, in my 50’s, I have changed my view. Please understand- I am in love with Jesus more than ever before, am pro-life, am a pastor’s wife, home school mom, been married to the same man for 27 years, teach Sunday school, and lead worship at our church. But I now believe that God created husbands and wives as equals, friends and co-heirs in the promises. After counseling many women who were verbally and sometimes physically abused by their Christian husbands, I studied the verses that cause so much pain. What I learned is this:

    1) Eve was Adam’s helper, but this didn’t mean servant or maid. We don’t see Eve helping Adam by washing his clothes or cleaning his house; she was created to help Adam rule the world. As woman, she was given equal status as part of “mankind.” She had equal responsibilities and equal blessings. It appears that as salt is to pepper, peanut butter is to jelly, Eve was Adam’s Helper in that she helped to complete the set: man + woman = mankind. This was God’s beautiful, original design for husbands and wives.

    2) At the fall, Eve was cursed, with all women, to be ruled by her husband. Ever since the curse, in nearly every society, women have been ruled by men. In some cultures, women are the legal property of their husbands and can be abused, sold, or even killed.

    3) In the Old Testament, slavery is always mentioned as a curse, never part of the blessings for God’s people.

    3) Jesus broke that curse, along with every other curse, at the cross. Christian women are now free- co heirs with men once again to enjoy all the blessings and promises of God.

    4) In 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, Paul has many rules for women.
    They are told to keep silent in church, wear head coverings or wear long
    hair, and never teach a man. Paul says women “are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.” But why would Paul, who in Galatians says
    that “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law,” and now “there is
    neither male nor female; you are all one in Christ Jesus,” and “if you are led
    by the Spirit, you are not under the law,” now put women (half the church)
    under the law? I think Paul was trying to jolt these churches back into grace. This
    makes sense considering how in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 Paul tells the people that
    he can’t talk to them as Spirit filled believers; because of their carnal
    behavior, he must speak to them as people still under the law.

    5) In Philippians 4 and Romans 16, Paul mentions many women who were ministers, deacons, teachers, laborers, co-prisoners and co-workers for the Lord! These women were anything but silent. It seems these women broke the rules of 1 Corinthians and Paul was very happy for it! Why? Because they lived in grace, not legalism. Remember, the law kills but the Spirit gives life! It is for freedom that Christ set you free, do not be burdened again with the yoke of slavery!!

    6) When Paul tells wives to submit, he tells husbands to love (agape) their wives. 1 Corinthians 13 tells us that agape love is patient, kind, and doesn’t demand its own way. This is, of course, the very heart of submission. So, in reality, Paul is telling husbands and wives not to demand their own way… submit to the desires of the other, just like Christians are supposed to act with all people at all times.

    7) The husband is head of the wife, as Christ is head of the church… How is Christ our head? Is He demanding or patient? Is He angry or loving? As Christ gave us the example of how to agape love, husbands are to usher this kind of love into the marriage. They are the heads in that they are to be the model of agape love for their families. Nabal was “head” by being an angry, demanding
    tyrant that no one could reason with (1 Samuel 25). Clearly God was not pleased with Nabal’s behavior!

    Solomon, however, was “head” by not being demanding…. When his wife was tired and turned him away one night, Solomon didn’t throw a tantrum and demand his own way, he quietly turned and left. King Lemuel, husband to the Proverbs 31 woman, also ushered this Godly love into his marriage. His wife was an intelligent woman who pursued many interests during her lifetime. Lemuel gave her the freedom, one fellow human to another, too follow her creative desires. He was “head” by being respectful to her, considerate of her needs, and proud of her talents. She, in return, loved him dearly and did him no harm all the days of his life.

    My advice to Christian women is to marry a man who will be a friend, not a ruler.

    • leannacoylecarr

      Beautiful, honest, and well thought out response. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us younger women.

      • Little old LOL me

        Wisdom? It doesn’t matter since an accelerating number of men in droves and of all ages, will never commit to living together while especially have a child. So keep it up as it will not be long when the birth rate plummets below 1 child especially among white women. Have Independent fun with you Careers, but don’t whine when cancer of your reproductive organs (not just breasts that aren’t being used naturally), also accelerates because they are not being used as intended. Also, how are you going to contend with immigrants of a different skin colour and especially culture take over through shear numbers? Do you really think they will, like white and black men, put up with the Caucasian women controlling the Jobs via their dominance of human resource offices? The day of reckoning is coming as more young women are starting to denounce women in their ~ 30s through 60s as ruining their lives = unnatural feminism ideology. Self-centred corruption. MGTOW, a new movement is blossoming and, when men of all political stripes, backgrounds and ages embrace it, droves of females will never have a child.

    • Hannah B

      This was a beautiful interpretation of God’s purpose for men and women.

  • Elisabeth

    Very good thanks!!

  • C

    Hi, ladies of Girl Defined. It’s awesome that you spend your time encouraging and exhorting young women of faith. I may not agree on every point, but I can see that your sincere desire is to point young women to Jesus. I also want to offer a caution: Jesus loves us all, where we are. This means he loves the woman who’s never married and had children, he loves the woman who works outside her home, he loves the women in other countries who may never have the same kind of opportunities that American women have to pursue homemaking and wife and motherhood. All three of those things are good things! But they’re not universal. Some women, do not have the freedom to pursue homemaking. Some women are not able to bear children. Some women never marry. Yet all these women are equally valuable to our Savior. And, honestly, believing that women have direct access to Jesus as their Lord and Savior – that’s what makes me a feminist. Being 100% percent in favor of the equality of men and women, that’s what makes you ladies feminists! Please hear me out. We could use a different term for it. You’re young women who believe that women have value. You believe that Jesus died on the cross for women, that he purchased their salvation with his sacrifice. It’s easy to toss out feminism – because it has been, by some, associated with man-hating and the demise of the family. It has been used as an excuse for things we know are not Godly. So has Christianity! But we don’t toss out our faith just because someone could come along and say “What type of Christian are you?” we don’t toss our faith just because there are lots of ideas out there about what it means to be a Christian, or just because atrocities have been commited in the name of the Lord. What about absolutes? The absolutes are that Jesus died on the cross and rose again, to save sinners, and that all who believe on him shall be saved. It’s so simple. Feminist or not, any woman who calls on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. “And then she won’t be a feminist anymore!” You might say. Maybe she won’t be. Maybe she will be. What matters, after all is not what we eat and drink, as Paul puts it, but “righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” “But righteousness doesn’t lead to feminism!” But maybe for some women it does. Maybe some Christian women advocate for better lives for women because they believe it’s the righteous thing to do. In the article, it’s stated that we don’t need feminism because Scripture already gave us equality. Feminism reacts to the fallenness of the world. A fallen world, and sin, gave us women treated like property, like people who couldn’t access Jesus directly. Salvation gives us something beautiful: people standing before the foot of the cross, humbled by the rescue of their Savior. I’m a Christian feminist because I believe women belong amongst those people. Women have a place there, at the foot of the cross.

    • So, wouldn’t that just make you a Christian then? What does that have to do with feminism. If the sole reason of you being a feminist is because you believe Jesus loves us all equally then that makes you a Christian not a feminist. Actually, most feminists would claim Christianity is a form of oppression created by the patriarchy which would explain why most of them are nonreligious.

  • Sarah Elizabeth

    Have you ever read the book “Jesus Feminist” by Sarah Bessey? If so, what do you think about it? Do you agree with what she writes?

  • If you want to know more of the origins of feminism, look up people like Elizabeth Cady Stanton, who was distressed about things like widows losing their homes, mothers not getting their share of custody, and people caught up in slavery. In short, she cared about what Isaiah 1:17 say:

    ” Learn to do right; seek justice.
    Defend the oppressed.
    Take up the cause of the fatherless;
    plead the case of the widow.”

    And all feminism is equality feminism. The dictionary definition of feminism is: “the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.”

    Granted, some feminists prefer not to use the word “equality” in their definition, for reasons like this: “”A commitment to sexual equality with men is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered.” – Andrea Dworkin

    But even they want to have equal opportunities, equality before the law and being equally safe as men – they emphatically do not want women to oppress anyone.

    If you say “Most feminists aren’t too fond of God’s design for gender,” make sure you actually know what His design is. Unlike what you may think, many Christian feminists love to know “of Eve being created as a helper to Adam”. We know that “helper” does not mean an assistant who is ordered around. The Hebrew (the language Genesis was written in) word is usually used for God, and always for a strong person mercifully helping a weaker person – never for a servant whom you can order around. I want everyone to know that God made woman as the kind of helper that can also be translated with “strength” or “rescuer”, but not with “maid” or “secretary” or “assistant”!

    As for “almost all feminists stand for the following” that is you are stereotyping. Christian feminists usually does not stand for those things. And if you put Christian feminists into one camp with unbelieving ones, the same could be done to Christian and non-Christian non-feminists. As in, for example: “Rape is higher and less prosecuted in non-feminist societies. The countries with the highest abortion rate, India and China, murder unborn girls because of gender inequality. Non-feminist countries are much poorer, except if they happen to have oil.”

    I agree that “If [I] currently claim to be a feminist, I [should] carefully consider what that word means and what it’s largely associated with.” By the meaning, I am one. I cannot help if others associate it with negative things. For example, me and you probably both call ourselves “Christians”, even though some people associate that with judgementalness and hypocrisy.

    You speak of “agreeing 100% with feminism” , which I find the same as “agreeing 100% with Christianity”. No feminist agrees with all theories put ahead by all other feminists, and no Christian agrees with all modes of baptism, all ideas on the rapture, or all ideas on how to get saved, ever put forward by other feminists or Christians. But the basic idea of feminism is completely suitable to man and women both being created to rule the earth (Gen. 1:26-28), and no believer being supposed to lord it over another (Matt. 20:25-27) – that is for worldly people.

  • N

    If men fulfilled their roles, there wouldn’t be a need for feminism. Men enjoy a favourable stance in society. Think of the woman at the well. A lot of times, especially in families, women have to step in and fulfil the role of a man because, well, they run away from their roles and responsibilities as fathers and are hardly called out for that. You preach about how women are not supposed to do A B and C because it is a man’s job, but fail to see that a lot of them are put into situations where they have to take over such roles cause man is not doing his part. Women are ALWAYS ALWAYS reminded to submit but men are hardly ever reminded to love their wives like Christ loves the Church. LIKE CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH. How must I fulfil my role if you fail to respect me as a woman? As another person? I am from South Africa where cultural gender roles are deeply embedded into society. Such a movement, I think, is necessary to counteract such norms which include, among many others, the feeling of entitlement among men.

    • tertioptus

      “Women are ALWAYS ALWAYS reminded to submit but men are hardly ever reminded to love their wives ” that is anecdotal. I’ve been to a lot of different churches, and most preachers seemed deathly afraid to broach the topic of wifely submission. They kind of blurt it out, and go in to detail about how husband should love their wives.

      Only Godless women go on and on about men not doing their job. How is that Christ like. First of all the women who think she knows better already has an awful disposition. No man will be able to stand up to her tests. God may secretly call the man up to the mountain, like Moses, and that woman will say “Where are you going, we have chores today!”. One thing we can assume, he will not call you secretly to a mountain, before your husband.

      If your an atheist, by all means partner up, go egalitarian, fight to bend the other to your will and world view. If you are a Christian woman, be quiet on contentious matters, and prove you faith in God, LIKE CHRIST on the cross. If the man does not do his job, God will take care of him. The problem is that most “Christian” women don’t like that, because truthfully, they don’t really believe in the God of Christ, and Abraham, etc.

      • No way! The Hebrew for help meet for him” (Gen 2:18) is ezer (help) k’negdo (meet for him).
        Ezer – help – is a word mostly used for God in the Bible -not an assistant, but a strength you cannot do without.

        K’negdo – meet for him – is an equal, an opposite, on his level, to stand against or with him (against when he is wrong, with when he is right).

        For that reason, it is the job of a woman to stand against a wrong-doing man. To let him continue to treat you badly is to not encourage Christian behaviour. And allowing him to mistreat you is not “submitting as to Christ – Christ will not mistreat.

        As for God calling a woman “secretly to a mountain”, before her husband – God told Mary about her pregnancy first, she said she wanted to obey God in it, and then God told Joseph he needs to marry her any way – despite being pregnant with a baby that is not his.

        • tertioptus

          God spoke to Mary, Sarah, and John the Baptist’s mom. All having to do with giving birth.

          What your’e saying is totally antithetical to the message of God. If you don’t like it that’s fine, make your own religion, as it seems you have. You’re interpretation of “help meet” allows a woman to determine whatever she thinks is nonspiritual, and fight about it. This does not fit with the entirety of the Word. To believe that is just rebellion. How can a woman be of equal strength and a weaker vessel at the same time. tread lightly Retha, you are trying to conflate feminist doctrines with the Word of God.

    • I agree with you, it seems the church is blind to the world we live in and the suffering we endure, God forbid someone else they don’t agree with stands up for what’s right.

  • mac

    Feminist Christian is an oxymoron…..completely incompatible to the word of the Lord.
    Those that say other than this are of satan. Just as Jezebel met her ending….so too will the feminist.

  • DBM092015

    Apparently your view of feminism is jacked up… Read the Webster’s definition of feminism, then read 1 Corinthians 11:11.

  • Elsa

    I’m a Christian and I think that men and women can swap role and that they can share an equal relationship and my church and pastor think the same. A father can be as loving as mother and can also take care of the home. A woman can also have a career. Jesus gave an important place to women in his time. I personally wouldn’t be happy if I stayed at home and had an unequal marriage. Having a career and sharing the chores with my husband enable me to find happiness. However, I disagree with feminists on the subject of abortion. I’m pro-life and always will be.

  • mac

    Makes me really pleased as a man to read what you have written. We have the masculine & the feminine,….why would a women forgo such beauty in the feminine (which is so much more than skin deep) to become more masculine, to somehow try and defeat her given form as given by God. We are equal in God’s eyes….but not in duty. If we truly love our wife from the heart and she her husband…..then we are a treasure to each other,….but many now do not know what love is,…..love is giving as God gives to us, it is not competing against each other. To know Gods love we then know by contrast what love is not. Modern feminists have withdrawn from God…..They are the modern day Jezebels caught up in their own ego, power and control…enslaving men….leading them astray….however, they can never be pleased, know peace or be content as they do not know love. They have been deceived as Eve was in the garden, Satan was behind it then as he is now…..you will be like God he said.
    The destruction of the family is happening right before our eyes. They hate the “patriarchy”….as they would loudly & proudly proclaim.The head of the patriarchy is none other than God the father.

    • Well said! As a female, I find it very encouraging to hear a man who sees the true value and role of women as you related.

  • Tabby Dharma

    I am a feminist and christian – I go by the term Femi-Christ as I believe that Jesus was in fact a female. Being a Christian and Feminist can work but the first step is to take away any power from men as they are the least holy of our species – Women can lead the way to god.

    • Little old LOL me

      You are insane

  • Tes

    Gender is actually a social construct, not “created by God” – our societies and cultures created gender roles which limited women to certain jobs, responsibilitises, and social norms. From what a woman should wear, how she should act, and being “feminine” we’re defined by the culture of the time and the church. Jesus was a feminist! He went against the culture of the time in speaking to women, standing up for them when others questioned what he was doing, women funded His ministry all throughout the New Testament and He empowered women during His life by doing what He did best – challenging religious and societal norms by bringing freedom, and truth. Yes there are different feminist movements which are not biblical – but your interpretation of feminism is wrong. We do deserve EQUAL pay, we can get the CEO jobs, as well as being stay at home mums, or cooks, caregivers etc. Like anything – if taken to the extreme (as branches Fogg feminism have been) then yes it is not of God and is driven by hate or pride. But Feminism root – is believing that God made us of equal value, and men with their physical and social privileges have abused their power and that’s why feminism is needed. Look at rape culture, look at the oppression of women around the world, that is what feminism fights against.

    • Tes

      Excuse the typos – *responsibilities *of – hard on my phone to write.

  • Little old LOL me

    Okay, western culture is into the 6th decade of continuously hearing about the F-word, Independence, and Careers. As feminism has accelerated, look at what has happened to the family unit, how children are raised…have things improved for children and men’fathers? To say yes, especially for children, would be the worse LIE ever. Meanwhile, options, control, power inside and outside the house has been granted to females. What this has created is men of all ages who refuse to get involved in relationships due to the potential losses that are so risky and great. So, if younger women are okay with no mate or kids, than we’ll have lots of single people living their own Independent lives. The main issue/thrust of feminism is > competing with men for the MONEY – Jobs. As this happens, few women will find what they think they deserve which is a man making more than her, while men in this position, are in an identity crisis. Jolly good show feminists. You will reap what you sew, and soon enough IF we think things are bad now, it isn’t going to be e pretty sight in years to come for the west. New immigrants will over throw the Caucasian race eventually; how will white women then fend for themselves out-numbered?

  • Sarah

    I would describe myself as both a Christian and a moderate feminist. While I am against abortion and don’t agree with homosexuality/sexual immorality, I believe that to a certain degree gender equality is important. I wouldn’t consider myself stereotypically feminine. I am competitive, ambitious, and strong. I work hard in college and seek to be successful in a career. I recognize that men and women have different roles in Christ, but socially, economically, and educationally, women and men deserve equality. As a feminist, I choose to aid women across the world facing genital mutilation, slavery, and rape. The Bible is supportive of this.

  • Hailee

    I struggled reading this because your definition of feminism is not the same as my definition of feminism.
    I am a Christian, and yeah, I’m a feminist. Unfortunately, that word has negative connotations associated with it these days. However, the true definition of feminism is “the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men”. So, the fundamental questions are:
    Do you believe women deserve the right to participate and partake in government?
    Do you believe women are of equal value to men in society?
    Do you believe women and men should be treated equally, economically?
    If you answered yes to all three, THAT is what makes you a feminism.
    I think we need to emphasize this. Obviously, yes there are groups which advocate for different womens rights than those I just described – such as abortion, lesbianism etc, etc – but the key distinction here is the word GROUPS. You cannot coin ALL feminists as advocating these rights, just like you can’t coin all German’s as Nazi’s.
    Biologically, we are not the same as men. That is not to say that we are not equal… but it is to say that we are different. Now if someone comes up to me and says “Well if women can bear children, and we’re all about equality now, science should come up with a way for men to bear children too” I would probably faint right there. It’s true, women do have innate tendencies towards compassion, and men have their tendencies too! We are different! Just as every women is different from the other, and the same for men! We are all different, but based off of our genders we are equal. There are extremists in every single corner of the world standing for every single “cause” there is and of course they tend to distort the reality of the fundamentalist.
    Now, I’m not trying to attack the author of this post in any way shape or form, but I think that it is a good example at how certain theories, or definitions become taken out of context because of the extreme cases. I just think we need to think for ourselves and instead of trying to attack that which scared us because it threatens our beliefs, I recommend we ask God for guidance and wisdom to justify why we believe what we believe.
    Women should not believe that the word “feminism” means that they don’t trust in God, nor should they believe that it means anything that is against men!
    Don’t allow these umbrella’d ideas to taint the true beliefs behind this term!

    • Shelby

      This is why I don’t call my self a feminist because it has so many different definitions. Its never a straight toward meaning. There’s so many different types of feminist? Like what is this. I’m for equality in value. Not in what sexes can do an can’t. Men and woman in america already have a lot of opportunities. Now most of feminist is for changing the social structures of things. Females have disadvantages just like men. If god wanted woman to be physically and mentally equal he would have but he didn’t.

      • Rebecca

        Women are not mentally equal to men? In my experience that is simply untrue.

        “Christianity” also has wildly different connotations and is often associated with conflicting ideals. Is that going to stop you from identifying yourself as a Christian?

  • Sal

    It is sad to see other women with such a misconception about what feminism is and how “equality” aligns with God’s Word. I am a Christian, a woman, a wife, a lawyer, and a feminist–and from personal experience, I can say that this article greatly perverts what feminism means in my life and that of many others. First of all, this article greatly misdefines the meaning of its most basic principle: equality. Equality does not mean identical. It means of the same value in “status, rights, and opportunities.” How in the world does the correct definition of equality reject God, his design for marriage, or his design for humanity? When God created Eve, he called her Adam’s “ezer,” which means “helper,” but not in the way you have defined it in this article. The only other time in the Bible where the word “ezer” is used is to refer to God. It means so much more than the limited, 1950s (non-scripture-based) definition of “helper” you’ve been fooled yourself into thinking is the Christian female “gender-role.” “Ezer” invokes a sense of honor and value.

    If you ask me whether I gladly submit to my husband in our marriage, I would NOT–as a feminist wife–cringe at that statement. I would emphatically say YES. God designed men to be the leaders of marital relationships the same was Christ led the church: to sacrifice himself for her. Nowhere in Ephesians or anywhere else does the Bible say that women are to stay home, let their husbands be the sole or primary breadwinner, be their husbands’ servants, be valued less than their husbands, or anything of the like. Men are to take responsibility for their marriages, and women are to honor their husbands by supporting them (as their “ezer”). So…how is my equality feminist perspective anti-Christian? Because I shouldn’t be married to a man who loves the Lord and takes responsibility for us? Because I shouldn’t use my own gifts–whatever they are–to support my husband (whether it be earning our income, challenging him intellectually, or staying at home)? Because I shouldn’t value myself, out of humility, as God’s creation? My husband and I are equal. I am worth no less to God than he is. Equality feminism isn’t trying to reject God’s truth: it’s supporting His Word that women ARE to be valued, honored, and respected. How can you say that a mentality which sees women as valuable is inherently antithetical to God’s Word, which says the same thing?

    Yes, I believe women can be as professionally successful as men, that many men can be stay-at-home dads as well as many women can be stay-at-home moms, and that women in politics, social leadership roles, and high-power jobs can be positively influential in those roles. These things in no way speak against the truth of the Bible. Equating feminism with all of the cultural, even radical feminist, movements that do go against Christian truths is a common mistake–but one which is not the result of Christian equality feminists making those connections. People who blame women for supporting women are the culprits. There certainly are feminists who support abortion, free sexuality, etc. There are also “Christians” who support hate speech, racism, violence, etc. Yet you are not writing this article to discuss how Christianity is antithetical to God’s Word, are you? Women are so often blamed for society’s sins, and told that to value themselves and their God-given purpose is to reject God. How incredibly sad is this lie. If more Christians (female and male) did identify themselves as equality feminists, maybe these misogynistic perceptions and anti-Christian connotations would be replaced by truth.

  • Bisonhawk1

    Feminism was largely influenced by the Soviet KGB during the 1960s. It was an ideological subversion of American values to #1 desroy the modern household. #2 demoralize western men. #3 tear apart the moral and religious values of the West. Former KGB defectors came forward and warned American that if we continued on this path that we would soon not be able to recognize our country. The Soveit Union may be gone but the ideological manipulation has taken root and has run amok through our society. The birth rate in the United States has slowed significantly with modern technologies such as birth control and women putting careers before starting a family. Men are constantly having to raise the bar to find a suitable companion as women chase wealth and refuse to take care of their bodies. Movements such as MGTOW and Return of Kings have sprung up in the wake because men see marriage as a 50 50 chance of loosing everything due to divorce rape. Congratulations Soviet Russia you have succesfully demoralized the western man. Joseph Stalin once said: the only way we can defeat America is if we can destroy the family unit, tear apart their moral fabric, and get them to deny their religious roots.

    • First Amendment

      Feminism started as a women’s movement and was largely influenced by the passage of the 19th Amendment. Also, your Stalin quote is bogus.

      Working women do not destroy families.

      “Divorce rape” assumes that men have more wealth than women, and as more women are breadwinners than men, it’s completely inaccurate.

      I suggest you wake up. In 2016, women choose where they want to work. If you think that women in the workforce hurts your masculinity, I have three words: No one cares. When you start to see women as more than baby makers, maybe you’ll realize how archaic you sound.

  • Beth Younger

    Glad to see some pushback to this really silly and ill-defined argument against feminism. Of course Christian women can be feminists–the real question is can feminists be Christian women? Apparently it’s very difficult because of how some Christians incorrectly define feminism. All you’re doing, GirlDefined, is reinforcing misogyny and the idea that women are lesser beings than men. Good job!

    • First Amendment

      It’s so refreshing to see so many people that agree with you and me. Thanks for sharing your opinion!

      • Shelby

        What’s more important. God or Feminism. God never agreed with how woman in the past and in other countrues are treated. We are equally valuable but you can not say physically, and mentally the same. We can’t do everything a man does like a man can’t do everything a woman does. Christian woman can’t be feminist because now its third wave feminist that just doesn’t make sense with what god agrees. In america at least men have inequality in some areas just like woman do. You can’t change that unless we all become the same gender. One thing I know is if your wiling to take something you really believe in and try to force it with you while you have god in the center of your life. It just doesn’t work out. Can’t twist the bible to fit your needs

  • Olivia Chambers

    Thank you for writing this article! It gets really confusing when people start to defend feminism with the message of “women are just as valuable as men” because they asume that non-femenists don’t believe that. Also, people will say that, if you agree with that statement, then you must be a femenist when that I the only part that I agree with. All of the other aspects of femenism are hurtful to women because they don’t know how to be. They get confused because there are so many people by telling them how to be a girl that doesn’t line up with our original design. It is a confusing world and I am thankful that you are there to point us to God for clarification.

    • First Amendment

      The screwed-up definition of feminism manifests itself in people who support equality between men and women, but denounce feminism. Feminism is the belief in equality between men and women. This is the root. While feminism branches out from this core belief, and feminists can support a variety of other movements, people who believe that women and men are equally valuable are feminists.

      If you think women deserve equal pay for equal work, you’re a feminist. If you think women should have the right to vote, you’re a feminist.

      You and the authors of this blog believe in equality between men and women, and you attribute equal value to both. This is feminism. If you argue that you’re not a feminist, you have a tainted view of the movement.

      To believe in equality but not call oneself a feminist would be to avoid eating meat but not call oneself a vegetarian. Suppose I avoided meat, and my diet consisted of salads and fruits. I would be a vegetarian. If I don’t call myself a vegetarian (suppose I think all vegetarians are weird hippies), it doesn’t change the fact that I still am.

      • Guest

        So does that mean that if I believe that men should vote, that I am a menenist?

        • First Amendment

          “Meninism” is not an actual movement. Feminism has a deep historical and cultural significance; meninism was the creation of teenagers on Twitter. The right to vote was never denied to white, land-owning men, but it was denied to women for hundreds of years. I used the example of suffrage to demonstrate a more recent event in history that shows equality between genders.

          Feminism actually applies to both genders– for true equality, everyone’s got to be on the same page. Make sense?

    • So grateful you found this helpful, Olivia! For some great Biblically based reads on this topic, I highly encourage you to grab a copy of Mary Kassian’s book, “The Feminist Mistake” (https://www.crossway.org/books/the-feminist-mistake-tpb/) as well as “Radical Womanhood: Feminine Faith in a Feminist World” by Carolyn McCulley (http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Womanhood-Feminine-Faith-Feminist/dp/0802450849). They are very insightful and eye opening. God’s design for women is the best out and by embracing it we will find true, and lasting, liberation.

      • Olivia Chambers

        I’ll check those books out. 🙂 Thanks for the recommendation!

  • Lily

    I think this blog post was written from a good place but it might sound a little defensive especially since you discuss how you’ve received numerous emails against previous posts on this blog. I feel like I’m on the fence because if there’s one thing I have to commend feminism for is the fact that I as a young woman am able to be educated in a university and move onto having a career that I plan on loving & dedicating hard work to one day; being purposeful in God’s Kingdom through the workplace. I’m quite glad that women now are being recognized that they aren’t less intelligent or rational than men because interestingly enough we just think differently and both genders should be applauded for using their God-given abilities to further God’s Kingdom and primarily I think the shift has gone from homemaking for women to being able to participate in more activities/ life adventures before marriage, children and the whole bit- women currently can discover who they are and live rather than sitting at home waiting to be married!

  • First Amendment

    “Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties.
    Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.
    If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?””

    “I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.”

  • First Amendment

    PSA: International Women’s Day is March 8!

  • As I read these comments, I just couldn’t help but comment myself. I agree completely with you, Kristen. Feminism and Christianity can’t mix. I commend you for being brave enough to post on something that is so controversial as feminism. I am reading these other comments and I just shake my head. I am sorry for all of the hateful things that they are saying about you and this post. It just makes me sick how satan can pervert a beautiful brain that each of these ladies posses. Thanks so much for standing strong in your beliefs!

    Sarah

  • Amy

    In what ways has the ideology of feminism seeped into your worldview? Do you need to repent of having a heart of pride before God?
    – It has seeped into my world view for sure. I hold many feminist ideologies, maybe not all, but then again, there is no official “feminist” ideology, only what people latch on to to help their cause. But I mean, yeah, I believe in feminism at its core. I don’t think I need to repent for believing in it, I have not been led by God to believe otherwise.

    Do you look to feminism to answer your questions about womanhood? If so, have their answers satisfied you?
    – Yes, and yes.

    What mindset changes do you need to make so God’s Word becomes the authority in your life?
    – Well, this seems like a biased question, what if I don’t think I need a mindset change in this area? God is authority in my life, and yet I still believe in feminism, He hasn’t led me to be believe otherwise, quite the opposite actually.

    Will you take a step of obedience by trusting your Creator’s design for your womanhood?
    – Of course, will you?

  • Pingback: 7 Reasons I’m Not a Feminist()

  • laila

    The bible constantly degrades women… I absolutely agree women cannot be a feminist and a christian. My boyfriends family comes from a pentecostal background and you will never be able to convince me that a woman who is not allowed to wear pants and is not allowed to cut her hair could even slightly be a feminist. i have no idea why women would submit like that to their husbands. the men in those households should be ashamed of themselves for not letting their wives live their life to their true potential and educate themselves past high school and get decent paying jobs.

    • J

      Woah, can’t wear pants or cut their hair or continue their education past highschool? That’s bizarre especially since I go to a Pentecostal Church and women are allowed to do all those things (and are especially encourage to further their education) we even have head female pastors. How odd, what type of church does ur boyfriend’s family attend, or what branch of Christianity? If you happen to know.

    • This is what saddens me. You have allowed events that were carried out by man or PEOPLE of a church to determine your personal view and feelings towards God. God didn’t do those things to you or your boyfriends sister. Yet, you start this comment off with the very harsh (and completely wrong) statement that the bible downgrades women! With all respect I can’t help but to tell you that your statement is not only epically false but also disrespectful. You can’t make a judgemental statement like such and then begin to tell of you reason that has nothing at all to do with it. Furthermore, you give no proof. Where is your proof that my God and His word degrades women? My God loved and still loves, accepted and still accepts, fed and still feeds, clothed and still clothes, walked and still walks, talked and still talks, healed and still heals, and most of all forgave and washed the sins of many women and He still does. Even those women that were prostitutes and adulterous women that many PEOPLE would choose to beat or degrade bc they didn’t accept them as proper people of society. For instance the beautiful story of the woman at the well. Which was a woman who had 5 husbands and wasn’t living with her husband of the time, and was also a Samaritan woman who the Jews resented as dirty people. Jesus didn’t care he conversated with her and even offered to give her a drink that would allow her to thirst no more!!! He forgave and saved that woman. When many people wouldn’t even look her way. So please don’t lie and degrade my God and His word with your lack of knowledge and misunderstanding.

  • Lynne

    What do you think of Feminists For Life?

  • Camille

    Girlfriend you’re totally wrong in so many ways… here’s a suggestion : read Simone de beauvoir, one of the women where feminism started with, then ponder about what it is and if it is really against the bible. I’m a Christian and also a feminist. And before you judge me saying I’m wrong, please go learn about history so we could, then, have a healthy discussion where both parties know what they’re talking about. And to show you that I mean it, here’s my email. Send me an email once you get your facts straight: camillevilela@yahoo.com.br

    • Dom Saunders

      Says the woman who is a Christian and a feminist? Makes about as much sense as my being a black Christian (hint hint, I’m not). Point is, just because there were a few powerful women in the Bible doesn’t mean that a good chunk of it isn’t used to slam them outright and punish them, nor does it take away from the fact that to this day, fundagelical Christians still harp and thump their Bibles to justify why they believe women are second class. Get your own damn facts straight, sis.

  • I love this post. The proper and well explained manner and everything that it implies. I’m glad to have came across it and your blog. Alot of women are commenting disagreeing with the statement simplu because not all feminist agree with abortion, homosexuality, lust, and etc. Understandable. I see your point but personally, I rathernot associate of anything other than God. Which means Godly things like the title of being a Christian. The whole concept and stereotype is something that glorifies a number of things that are ungodly. If my spirit is cringed by hearing the word I don’t see it as something I need to walking in the path of, and this is whether or not it be due to my lack of knowledge and superficial view or not. My focus is on Jesus, therefore I walk and abide in fellowship with my church and doing things that glorify him. Not with events that conform me to the world and self rights /self righteous activists. Until my God lays it upon my heart to do so, I won’t be a feminist.

    • Jenessa Ho

      Do you think that God would want you to be an activist? Do you think that God would want you to stand for the people who are oppressed? Isn’t that what Jesus did?

      • Jesus was in fact stand for those oppressed. I feel God would want me to identify with the image he has created me which is implied in him and later we are told to live like Christ and be a follower of him. (Gen. 1:26)(1Cor. 11:1)
        However, we are also told to come out from amoung them and not be conformed of this world. If something goes against what God sees as unholy or wrong then I shouldn’t walk in the path of it. Scripture tells me that head of every man is Christ, and the head of woman is the man, the head of Christ is God. (1Cor.11:3) It also says the man isn’t of woman but the woman of the man and the woman was created for the man. (1Cor.11:8-12) I feel many to all feminist would object to that.
        It’s also said that taking innocent blood, homosexuality being wrong, and having or causing strife with one another is an abomination to the Lord. Feminist today stand for most to all of those things. Therefore I can’t stand with them. Am I viewed as equal to man in my God’s eyes, well ofcourse! Any Godly man treats and shows me as respectful and loving as Jesus Christ would the Church. Which he loved and gave His life for. (Eph. 5:25)
        But there is a distinguished role and standing as well.

        I oppose any harm or disrespect to a woman just as much as feminist. Yet, that’s about all we can agree on and be activists with. I’m studying for my Psychology/Christian Counseling as we speak and intend on working with domestic violence victims. I’m taking action where I feel God would want me to but I’m no feminist.

        • Jenessa Ho

          I wrote a big discussion post that you should read, because I don’t really want to repeat it again. But while you are in school, you should take advantage of it and properly educate yourself on feminisms or find feminist theologians and read what they have to say. They have studied Christianity and feminism and have done great work to show how Christianity and feminism can in fact work together. As I read this post and comments alike, I can see that many people are misguided on what feminism is. That’s okay, because in our patriarchal society, we barely have access to proper education on feminism. That doesn’t mean we should try to educate outselves.

          • I’m not opposed to learning or hearing the views or opinions of others. I’m actually a very understanding person and willing to sympathise with someone else’s feelings. I’m sure I do have much to learn about feminism and just like most people my view relates back to mainly the overall stigma society has allowed it to possess. Give or take a few studies and articles I’ve read.

            I’m no saint and I don’t have all the answers. I admit I’ve never had a desire to be an activist on this matter and even been guilty of being angered by a situation concerning the respect of women yet allowed myself in situations where I was treated in similar disrespectful fashion. I’m not saying your wrong for being a feminist but I do in fact think that the misunderstanding and lack of knowledge has allowed a door to open. In which feminist means wearing a title that is based on anger and frustration and even pride.

            I’d be more than okay with reading your piece. Would you like my email to send a link or just post it here?

          • I’m not going to deny the fact I could actually become more educated on the matter. I’ve done some but not much research on the subject in reviewing it and coming to my conclusion ir view of it. My view mainly comes from the select few sources I’ve used for a better understanding of it and then ofcourse the overall stigma that is designated by society. I’d love to read your post. You can post the link or send me an email at herlovelybeauty@gmail.com

  • folasade

    heres the thing to play a ‘heavenly advocate’ we know God affirmed equality in value by saying He created them male and female. But even in God’s economy He places value on humans being ‘higher’ then the animals in the scripture about the Sparrow. So its not about who’s more important bc we know without woman there would be no society at all. However, God is the only one who can create value and worth and asserting that you are ‘more important’ than God says you are is the height of arrogance. We are supposed to ‘get in line’ so to speak. so there’s no way feminism equates with Biblical Christianity, unless you are ‘speaking up for those who cannot speak for themselves’ women should not be oppressed the bible doesn’t support this, but even if we aren’t ‘equal’ with men, which isnt even the question we should ask, we still are required to obey God.

    • Rachel

      why should we not ask that question? For a long time, feminists (male and female) have been speaking for “those who can’t speak for themselves” precisely by speaking for women. Also, Christ himself treated women as more important than the society around him did.

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  • “In most feminists’ eyes, equality means women must have the same jobs as men. Same life plans as men. Same roles in marriage as men. Same roles in parenting as men.”

    Actually, feminists want to get rid of the “women must”s, rather than creating a new list of “women must”s.

    Religious hierarchists: “Women must have different jobs from men.”
    Egals: “Women should be able to work at whatever jobs they are gifted for and society needs, whether those are traditionally performed by men or by women.
    Religious hierarchists: “Women must have different roles in marriage from men.
    Egals: “A couple should divide tasks in marriage by their strengths and weaknesses, regardless of what tasks other couples give to the man and which to the woman.
    Religious hierarchists: “Women must have different roles in parenting from men.
    Egals: “A couple should divide tasks in parenting by their strengths and weaknesses, regardless of what tasks other couples give to the man and which to the woman. (One or two particular parenting tasks, like giving birth and breastfeeding, is never a male strength.)

    It is totally not true that feminists believe women MUST do X or Y – that is the way of thinking of the hierarchist, not the feminist.
    For that reason and many others, learn what feminists actually believe before you try to write against them.

  • Jax Hill

    I feel like your generalizations are your downfall here “Most feminists” this and “Most feminists” that … Without any documentation, and certainly without differentiation between Christian egalitarians and secular feminists. If you want to demonstrate why feminism and Christianity don’t miss, you owe it to yourself to gain a clear understanding of what Christian feminists (aka egalitarians) believe.

    Egalitarians (men and women!) take the Scriptures very seriously and attempt to “submit to one another in love” in marriage, as we are told to do; we take the time to investigate the Scriptures in their original languages rather than relying on translations that all too often are biased toward a patriarchal reading; we understand that men ruling over women was a result of the Fall of Man and the Curse which Jesus reversed by His fulfilling the law, death and resurrection; we refuse to perpetuate a system that gives lip service to equality but holds women back from their full potential in Christ; we reject what complementarians call “biblical gender roles” because they have no basis whatever in Scripture; we encourage all men and women to operate from their God-given strengths and not strait-jacket themselves into any particular “role.” How can this be incompatible with Christianity?

    Please take the time to dialog with egalitarians before you say that our views are incompatible with Scripture. If you look at the global oppression of women taking place even today in the name of “gender roles,” I think you may find it is your own views that break God’s heart, not ours.

  • Rusty Barnett

    Nonsense use of straw man arguments here. Equality does NOT mean “sameness”…it means equal opportunities. You get to choose. The fact that you can drive, work, vote, etc. are things you can thank feminists for. I am proud to call myself a feminist AND a Christian.

    • Rachel

      And the slippery slope… if you believe a woman’s place isn’t in submission to men, you clearly will kill lots of babies.
      But even not too far down the “slope” angers me- this idea that to reject her definition of gender roles means to reject God’s authority. I submit to God’s will for my life, which means that no, I’m not some guy’s trophy wife.

    • No the fact I can do any of those things is because of God. Point blank period. & that is the issue and my reasoning for where I stand with this issue.

      • Rusty Barnett

        You seem to lack an understanding of the meaning of the term “reasoning”. Falling back on “well, God did it, period” is not reasoning…it is the fall back position for one who has nothing logical to add to the discussion and can’t be, well, “reasoned” with. Cheers!

        • No sir you obviously just have a completely different definition for well, “reason.” My understanding and explanation and “reason” for doing anything in my life is because God allows it. I am here only because of God. It’s as simple as that. Now if you would like me to use a carnal way of thinking then sure some women stood up and made the choice to fight for certain freedoms we are allowed to as women of our country. However I’m not meant to think with a carnal mind.

          Blessings!

          • Rusty Barnett

            “reason” is why you choose to do something. “Reasoning” implies the use of logical thinking. You don’t have a “carnal mind”, you have a “mind”…use it wisely. Your theology seems to skirt dangerously close to gnosticism here, and that was long ago rejected by the church as heresy.

          • How is my way of thinking not “logical thinking” ?? That’s simply your opinion. I see it as God being my reason, my way of life, the reason I have life, and so forth. God uses people as vessels to fulfil His will that will be done. Those women you are referring to were in fact used by God to fulfil His plan.

          • You haven’t heard my theology to even begin make the assumption or accusation of such. Your out of line with that comment. Not only is it false but you should take your own words of treading lightly into consideration.

          • I’m going to end this conversation. It’s no longer one I see as respectful.
            Prayers & Blessings.

    • Scot

      Everyone who calls them self a christian should read the Bible and prove themselves worthy like it says. It would be hard to believe someone does that and says they are a feminist. The Apostle Paul, the one given the revelation of the Gospel to the Gentile or to us, wrote in the last of his ministry and in the very later days of the biblical timeline the books of Timothy somewhere around 60 to 70AD. In his writing It clearly says women are to submit under mans authority and that men are absolutely to love, protect, honor and provide for their wives. This truth is also in many of the other teachings of Paul from around this time. Feminism is a rebelious spirit that is destroying the family. How many women now are refusing to marry and find themselves thrust into more sin now in pre marital sexual relationships because they don’t want to submit to a man in marriage. Sin brings more sin. it has caused men to not know their true role not knowing whether and how they should approach a women. Should i open the door for her should i not? What roles are mine and which are hers. Gods ways do not produce more sin or confusion! This movement is of Satan and is a lie. I mean it’s ridiculous!

      • Wanda McDonald

        Ever think if the man actually upheld their part of the instruction women wouldn’t decide against signing their life over to become someone’s doormat?? Which by the way for the man it does not say protect or provide. It says love SELF SACRIFICIALLY. In order to love self sacrificially, one would never be able to lord it over someone else. Instead they would elevate that person to equal level. In a disagreement, instead of wanting his own way, a husband who is loving self sacrificially would give up HIS way, sacrifice his own desire in the matter to give his wife hers. That means every time there is an argument or disagreement, the husband has to choose to lay down his desire, and his wants to give his wife hers. So who is really in ‘charge’? Nobody! They both are! Using different vocabulary they are called to do the SAME THING!
        Submission = Self-Sacrifice, and Self-Sacrifice = Submission They are the same exact thing! The wording used is only to massage the male ego desire for dominance. He ‘thinks’ he is in control but in reality he gives her control, while feeling it was HIS choice to do so.
        By the way neither spouse can lord it over the other or boss each other around. I don’t think that’s what this is about at all. It’s so apparent it’s an illusion this idea of subjection or control. By the way the words obey and lead are never used. Just submission / subjection and self sacrifice. When you see they really are the SAME thing, then the end result is both spouses will try to make the OTHER happy by putting the other above themselves. If men view it as a power grab and a way to exercise authority they have missed the point (and will miss out on something amazing).

  • Jenessa Ho

    I completely disagree. I am a Christian and I am a Feminists. I don’t know any of my Christian friends who aren’t feminists as well. As God’s children, we are called to love one another as Christ loves us. We aren’t called to impose rules on one another, especially if they do not know Jesus. We can’t expect non believers to do what believers do. They have no reason to. We can’t fully love non believers by taking away their basic rights. Let me repeat this- we cannot fully love others if we hold christian standards over nonbelievers’ heads.
    Feminism does not fight for sameness. AT ALL. Equality is different from sameness. And not all feminists are the same in what they are fighting for. Supporting and standing behind feminists is what I feel that God would want us, as christians, to do. Women are so strongly oppressed in all countries, some more than others. Feminists fight against that. Jesus stood for the oppressed. Why shouldn’t we? And also we shouldn’t be feminists for OUR OWN worth. We should be feminists so that others, who do not have Jesus in their lives, can feel worthy. And as christians, we aren’t supposed to search for “lasting happiness” because that’s not our purpose in life. Finding happiness is not our purpose in life. That’s all selfish thinking.
    Feminism fights against the patriarchic society that we live in. This society is SOOO unhealthy and needs feminism. If you have a better solution to change our society so that all genders feel valued in ALL media, so girls don’t feel blamed for being raped, so girls feel as if their education matters too, so that girls don’t go on diets at age 8, etc etc etc. If you have a better solution to fight back against society to make this place a healthy place for ALL genders, then please do so. But if not, I honestly hope that you will pray and search for answers from God. For His Kingdom, I pray that you will learn to understand the importance of feminism. I pray that you will have a heart for ALL people, non-believers and all. And I pray that you will seek to actively LOVE as Christ loves us.
    There are great feminists theologians with a very very helpful perspectives on Christianity and Feminisms. I would love to show you some of their work.

    • Pamela

      Absolutely, equality does not mean sameness !

      • scot

        I agree!

  • Jenessa Ho

    I strongly encourage you to learn more and read up on what feminism really is.

  • Peter C,

    The reflections of this article are very accurate. If I may add, feminism is representative of being the contemporary Western world’s primary example of what C.S.Lewis referred to, in his book ‘Mere Christianity’, as the greatest possible spiritual sin. Pride. The truth of this – as our education systems, the printed press, the mainstream broadcasting media, the entertainment industry, law, modern politics etc. are put into context with objective and unalterable message of Scripture – needs no explanation to intelligent Christian people who truly accept the Word of God.
    If I may add still further. There is an old saying, which is supposedly a summary of the 26 verses of Isaiah chapter 3. “When the power of Satan is at it’s height, your leaders shall have the minds of children and women shall control them”. That is not a message condemning women. It rightly condemns egalitarianism. Which has got nothing to do with true equality.
    Peter. – UK.

    • Kenyon

      Fascinating how men wrote the Bible and just coincidentally wrote themselves into the role of the leaders and decision-makers, huh? Luckily Christianity is dying. Have fun while it lasts.

  • Gwyn

    A lot of these objections to feminism are based on interpretations of God’s will. Isn’t that a form of pride in itself? To assume that you fully understand what God’s intentions were when he created two genders?
    We must recognize that the bible was written by people, and that those people were influenced not only by God but by a myriad of oppressive social norms.

    Furthermore, it is an over-simplification to assume all women are one thing and men are another. While many women are nurturing and suited to home making, there are plenty who are not. Feminists believe, as you do, in fulfilling the roles one is most suited to. We just look at it on an individual basis, not divided by genders.

    • Reason

      oh ye rebellious one…………

    • B.B.

      I tend to agree with you, although I see the author’s point and she may be right. To me it seems the sin lies in pride, not in the possible misinterpretation of gender roles. I do not consider myself a feminist, and the movement’s trademark pride is the main reason why. I also feel feminism puts a lot of pressure on women to seize worldly things such as power, money, and sexual immorality, which I do not believe is right or healthy.

    • Joyful

      I love that the Bible is full of a vast varieity of personalities both male and female with the continuum of softness to ruggedness yet all within their gender design and roles. We are told to mutually submit one to another before submission in marriage. It takes more strength and courage to submit to each other than to follow our flesh. Submission is protection not restriction! God puts His Word above His name and He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Some things are black and white in the Bible and it is idolatry to put any of our beliefs above it. Let God be true and every man a liar. I chose to err on the side of eternity even if it means leaving a pet belief at the altar. A transformed mind is not just stamped Christaian, it is changed to the mind of Christ where there is peace and no shadow of turning or tossing of waves! Former Public School Socialized Feminist

    • Scot

      They were not influenced by anything but God here is the scripture to back it
      2 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)

      16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

      this says all scripture is given by God. All means all! So it being God breathed we could assume that means it is Gods word. if it is gods word it cannot be corrupted by man because God has power over man. Man can preach it wrong and understand it wrong because we are a fallen man. But the word is uncoruptable by man absolute and holy because it is from God!

      • Scot

        Many people get the understanding of scripture wrong because they try to understnad things that are spirit it with their intellect which is flesh heres a scripture to back it up
        1st corinthians 2 :14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

  • Very good post. The older I get, the stronger I feel on this subject. Being a Christian and a student of the Bible means I won’t be a feminist.

  • Michael

    A feminist “Pastor’s” wife got ahold of my loving and submissive wife and brainwashed her while she was struggling with menipaus and bi-polar disorder. After 32 happy years of marriage and 12 children, this pastor’s wife helped my wife leave me while I was out buying groceries for the family. I’m very distraught. Feminism robbed me of my precious wife and little ones. Feminism has ruined my life.

    • Dion

      Wow. Sad to hear that, but I can relate with a similar story. It wasn’t a pastor’s wife per se, but a culmination of happy, friendly, smiling, faces who belong to a “corporate support group” under the “Christian” banner.

    • Elysium

      But really? I doubt anyone would leave their husband if there weren’t underlying problems. Furthermore the fact that someone is a Feminist does not give them the power to brainwash. Sorry but you should probably look at your actions before blaming others…

      • Joyful

        Grace, mercy and remove your log first dear sister. I know a woman going through the same thing. Married 17 years and when a bump that any marriage can face hit, her ear was turned by feminist church member counsel. Now 3 kids and a bewildered husband are dumbfounded and heart broken. Whenever we seek counsel that tells us what we want to hear rather than the truth we put ourselves in danger. I am sad that you chose to attack this mans heartfelt confession when you have no clue as to the whole story. If you have not love your a clanging cymbal and hurting more than helping. Treat people the way you want to be treated. I am truly sorry if your marriage is not going well and pray tansformation and healing for you.

    • Dom Saunders

      You called your wife “submissive” and you’re mad that she left you? Are you really surprised?

    • mary

      I doubt this had anything to do with feminism. I know otherwise wonderful
      people with bi-polar who act impulsively. It is difficult to parent even 2 or 3 children well when you are emotionally ill.

  • {1 Timothy 5:8} “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”
    ….
    {Ephesians 5:22-27} “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

    {23} For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

    {24} Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

    {25} Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”

    {Titus 2:3-5} “The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

    {4} That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

    {5} To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.”

    {1 Timothy 2:8-10} “I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

    {9} In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

    {10} But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.”

    {1 Corinthians 11:7-9} “For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

    {8} For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

    {9} Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”

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  • Alexis

    Very awesome, well written article!

  • Hope Webster

    I myself have grown up in a small Christian private school kindergarten through 8th grade. My class was very tiny; I had 8 eighth graders with me when I graduated. While I was there, I encountered some of the biggest feminists I know, my best friend at the time included. Her and I would always go into passionate discussions with my teacher whenever the word “submit” or anything that relates to that particular word came up. My teacher, while teaching what the Bible says, had the highest respect for women. He even started to refer to us as “Ms” instead of “Miss” because it was the more feminist thing to do. He never, ever told my best friend and I to abandon our feminist ways; he only tried to explain what the Bible says more.

    Even though I submit to God, I cannot abandon my feminist title. I have struggled with this my entire life. My church and school have always tried to tell me one thing, but I just can’t stop being who I am. I would rather never marry than submit to a life-long partner. I have every respect for women who do choose to stick to the roles set in the Bible, EVERY respect. But I just can’t do it. And I know, (trust me, I’ve been taught this my entire life), if you deny one part of the Bible, you deny it all. I’m not denying the gender roles, I’m just saying that if a woman or a man chooses to reverse those roles, they should be able to do so. I believe in stay-at-home dads, and I believe in moms who provide for their households. I always have. I should know, because my parents have the exact same job. Literally. They share the same office and do the exact same thing. They BOTH contribute to household responsibilities as well. They are equal 100% of the time. They are “the same” 100% of the time.

    So to conclude, I believe in feminism, and I am a Christian. I struggle with my church every week because of that fact. I was baptized there as a baby, and I’m even a Sunday school teacher, which makes the consideration to leave it 10× more difficult. I only hope that there is some on out there who can relate to me at all; I could really use a good discussion with someone who might be going through the same thing I am.

    Thanks!

    • David Withington

      Hi Hope,

      I don’t believe there is anything wrong with choosing not to marry, if you feel that you cannot uphold to the role of a wife as taught by the bible then it is best not to become one. I fully respect that. Yet we know that the bible says that no man lives to himself or dies to himself, we all have an effect on each other by our words and actions. As you know, being a Sunday school teacher.

      I noticed you said that although you wouldn’t do it, but if someone wants to swap gender roles then they should be able to. An interesting thing to teach, please consider what this verse says you ought to be teaching instead:

      Titus 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

      The verse says that the lesson you ought to be actively teaching is not ‘swap gender roles if you want’, but to stick to them. It may not be your responsiblity to submit to a husband seeing as you don’t have one, but it is your responsibility to be actively teaching these gender roles to others.

      • Wanda McDonald

        I would surmise if Christians were actually required to follow these rules, in this day and age far far less women would want to be married at all and instead live for themselves. It would be a much better life to remain free. What happens then if no women wish to enslave themselves to a man to become his live in maid and servant?

        • David Withington

          You’re right. The Bible even prophecied that this would happen in 2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” Today’s society cannot endure sound doctine concerning (among other things) marriage. Yet Paul’s instruction to Timothy was not to change his message to match the times, but to continue to preach the truth.

          It’s not right either to equate a biblical marriage with slavery and servitude. The mere fact that there is authority involved does not mean that there is slavery involved. In today’s society we all have different authorities in our lives yet we are not slaves to any of them. In fact, I really enjoy working under my boss- he’s a good boss yet I am not his slave.

          If no woman wishes to marry and uphold a biblical framework of marriage, then it’s best not to marry. Yet I am fully persuaded that we can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens us. Not only does the bible command us to do hard things, but God also gives us the ability to perform them.

        • Amanda

          Ephesians 5:20-22
          Wives and Husbands
          …20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.… ”

          Berean Study Bible

          Note that Ephesians 5:21 says

          21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

          Meaning, husband and wife are to submit to ONE ANOTHER.

  • Wanda McDonald

    Wow, Christian women how does it feel to know you you were born into subjugation? How exactly does God choose which souls will be born into punishment (subjugation) as females – made only to ‘serve’ a man – another human, to never have independent thought or freedom or control over your life, to be ordered around (even if the man does so ‘nicely’). And how does God choose which souls will be born into privilege as males, to have a servant underneath you, to have the freedom to make all the decisions, to be able to have independent thought and control over your own life? Christianity makes being female a punishment, and makes girls loathe their gender and regret being born into this servitude to men. If women were really meant to be born without ability to make their own decisions and lead their own life and family in a God given direction, then females would be born without a brain or free will. Seriously it would be much easier to just make females like stepford wives… no free will, no actual ‘consciousness’ there. Just a robot designed to serve men and obey them. ANY relationship where one person has 100% control over the other, is wrong. It puts one person in an entirely vulnerable position having to rely on the other 100% to always have their interests in mind. Problem is, men are human. Humans are not perfect, and don’t always have the interests of others in mind. That automatically subjects the woman to existing only to serve mens desires, and hers go unfulfilled… unless he wants to fulfill them. Giving him last say in decisions, means she really has NO say at all. Because unless he agrees with her, then her choice doesn’t matter. And if he does agree, then its his choice anyway right? So she has NO control, NO authority, NO voice, NO decision making. She may as well have been born without a brain or free will! No person would ever willingly subject themselves to literal slavery under another human…. just because they were born with certain parts between their legs.
    Feminism is not about destroying men. Feminism is not about destroying families (I know plenty of families where the man stays home with the kids and she works and they are happy and their marriage is great!) Feminism is not about rejecting God… its only about rejecting the words of some male humans that wrote words ‘inspired’ by God (but wrote through their cultural coloured lenses).

    • David Withington

      I wonder, do you believe that everyone who has a government in their country, a boss at work, or a captain on the sports-team is being enslaved, punished and degraded?

      • Wanda McDonald

        Nope, because any citizen can become involved in politics and run for office, any employee can be advanced within the company to supervisor or manager level (based on their ability, not their genitals), and the best player gets captain on a tem, again based on ability and not genitals. To put someone in the lowest rank for all time and tell them they can never advance or be ‘promoted’ simply because they have a vagina instead of a penis is wrong. To take away the rights of one partner in a team of only two, and make them have to obey the other, while the other gets to always exercise their own will, simply based on whats between their legs, is wrong. Its effectively smothering out the rights of one, to allow the other 100% control and power. Any relationship (which by the way is not a company, or a sports team, or a government) but a relationship of only two people which is supposed to be based on love, should not have a hierarchy where one partner has 100% of the power and the other is 100% at the mercy of the other. Even the most well meaning husband will abuse that power to decide in his own favour sometimes. (decisions like new toy for the garage vs something needed for the house, or his and her show both on at the same time, and only one TV) I watched my Father do this to my Mother all my life. Try to boss her around all the time. Sure she could have just ‘obeyed’ but then everything and I mean everything would have been for my Dad. it was HIS tv, and they could not afford a second when I was young. It was HIS car, so if she wanted it when he did, guess who got it? Giving one person 100% power and control over everything and telling the other they must 100% always obey opens up for 100% abuse. Have you ever heard of the saying, Absolute power, corrupts absolutely?

      • Wanda McDonald

        Also in the situations you mentioned, the power of authority is not all encompassing. Meaning an employee is only required to obey in the parameters of the employment. Meaning a boss cant order someone to do something outside the workplace. Same with a sports team, even the Government can’t be in the bedrooms of the citizens. The government does not have the right to tell you what to eat for example and you are not required to ‘obey’ if a politician tried to demand you eat a certain thing. However, in the case of what patriarchal christianity teaches, it’s 100% subjection of wife to husband. Husband = 100% and authority over his wife and she is required to 100% obey unless its against God (sin). Ordering someone to eat a certain thing, or wear certain clothes, or do certain things outside of religious things would not be considered sin. Therefore, the subjection is all encompassing, and affects EVERY aspect of the wife’s life. So yes, that is slavery.

        • David Withington

          Im sorry you view biblical marriage as slavery.

          • Wanda McDonald

            Only for the woman. Think about it. If you were in the position of a woman instead of the privileged position as a man, and had to just ‘obey’ all the time instead of being able to exercise your own will how would that feel? Sure most of the time, spouses agree on nearly everything (because why would you marry someone who you didn’t have most things in common with anyway?) But, those few times when husband and wife disagree, if you were in the position of the woman, no matter how much you hated the idea, thought it was wrong way to go etc you would be expected to just obey your husband. The decision would always be in his hands meaning he always gets to exercise HIS will over you. And this is for life remember! No chance to advance or get a promotion, no chance to be voted next time to be captain! It’s for life! (Or until death do you part). That’s a HUGE HUGE commitment that a wife is signing on to. The man, heck he is getting a grreat thing! A free maid, a free subordinate to support HIS work and HIS ideas. She is signing on to lose herself and become someone’s ‘assistant’ someone’s ‘second’. Seriously how would you feel to ALWAYS be second banana for your WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE with no chance to better that situation?? Knowing your husband sees you as inferior and subordinate?? It’s hurtful and degrading to women!

          • David Withington

            If it’s a decision you don’t want to make, then don’t make it.

            But it’s not the opportunity to become a captain that makes being under authority bearable. I’ve been on both sides, having a boss who was utterly unreasonable and cruel, yet through the power of Christ I was able to humbly submit myself under her authority. The ability I had to take her role did not make it bearable, the knowledge that God is watching made it bearable.

            Currently, I have a boss who I would be happy to remain so for the rest of my career. The abiltity to take his role does not factor in my content at the current situation, his character as a leader is what makes me happy to work under him. Now I have ideas and suggestions for work, It doesn’t bother me in the slightest when he chooses not to approve them, it doesn’t make me feel like I am incapable to make decisions.

            You can say that marriage is different to work, yet I know many Christian wives who are happy with this arrangement for the same reason- not for the ability to one day take rule over him, but because he has good character as a leader.

            But once again, if it’s a decision you don’t want to take, then don’t take it.

          • Wanda McDonald

            You don’t understand what I am saying. It’s not the fact that you can one day take over a specific certain boss, its the fact that you are not limited to remain in the subservient position for all time for something you had no control over, you gender! Don’t you think marriage works much better when BOTH get authority in how things are run in the marriage? BOTH individuals should be able to retain veto rights. If the husband orders her to do something she REALLY doesn’t want to do, she should have the right to veto it or else its bullying. Most cases out of LOVE not submission, most spouses will WANT to do what the other wants, not because of some rigid hierarchy, but because they simply want to see each other happy, and it goes BOTH ways not just one!
            So, if the wife asks/tells her husband to do something he in most cases should do it also! If they reach an impasse then if they can’t solve it between them, a third party should be brought in (or walk away and revisit it later on after both have had time to think). Giving one person all the authority to just decide what they want while the other is expected to just agree with a smile is wrong. There is such a thing as compromise, and it should not be always the wife giving in while the husband always gets his way. Thats not fair and after awhile of the husband always getting his way, the wife will grow to resent that arrangement and start to fall out of love. So do you want a wife who grudgingly gives in because she’s ordered to, and feels her will means nothing, and then later on starts to resent that after it happens over and over, and maybe the first few years she will be happy to play subordinate because she is still wide eyed in love, but trust me after time passes, she WILL resent you having all the freedom to choose YOUR way and never hers. And you might not lose her physically if she believes deeply in Christian doctrine of no divorce, but emotionally you WILL lose her. Nobody wants to be smothered for all time for their whole life into a secondary role. NOBODY! And you cant compare work to home life. Work stays at work when you go home. Your boss has no authority over what you do at home or as a family. For the wife in this situation your authority would pervade EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of her life. She is essentially a non person because its only YOUR will that matters. She WILL grow to resent it. I have watched it happen. Women suffering in silence as their husbands become controlling, jealous, abusive, refusing access to family finances, buying toys for himself and leaving her with almost nothing outside of basics, buying himself booze, ordering her around to ‘make him a sammich’ and ‘get me a beer’ type of thing while HIS game is on TV and she never got to watch anything of hers. You really think a woman can love a man anymore when that happens?? And it WILL happen if you give 100% control to one person, the husband. 100% power corrupts 100% absolutely.

          • David Withington

            You say that it’s something that you have no control over. You are mistaken. You have 100% control over it. A woman has 100% control over whether she becomes a christian, and 100% control over whether she becomes a wife-and to whom she becomes a wife to.

            The scenario you have presented is not an accurate description of a biblical marriage.

          • Wanda McDonald

            But what? Her choices are either don’t get married or choose to live in subjection? While men get to be ‘free’ and in control for their whole lives. That’s fair… NOT! A woman has to choose between companionship and freedom to decide her own life. Between serving a husband and being his slave or living as a free woman who can make her own decisions. Meanwhile men never have to choose between companionship and their freedom to control their own lives. Who is making the larger sacrifice in that kind of marriage where its all vs none when it comes to power? No wonder most marriages back in history of Christianity were ‘arranged’ and forced.

          • David Withington

            The fact that you obviously do not live this lifestyle is irrefutable proof that women do have a choice. If they did not then you also would be in subjection to a husband.

          • Wanda McDonald

            I was not brought up in evangelical or baptist hard core christianity. My Father was Catholic and my Mom was Protestant but they weren’t very religious so I wasnt forced into anything. I was speaking more of families like the Duggars, etc in present day, and nearly all Christian families in history up to about 100 years ago. Yes, most women were married off in arranged marriages and courting was strictly supervised. But there are fundamentalist groups who still adhere to this. The girl might show interest in a boy, but the parents (more like Father) have the last say. And these kids are brainwashed to the point where they feel they will be shunned if they leave or follow a different path.

          • Martha

            Catholics don’t marry Protestants if their doing what they are suppose to do. Catholics marry ONLY Catholics, unless they don’t mind getting ex-
            communicated. Hummmmm you’re parents needed to teach you more
            about rules and the Bible.

        • Martha

          You must feel comfortable just saying any thing you want. In Michigan, Wisconsin and other states (that’s called government) it is against the law to commit adultery (that’s bedroom!). Quit making things up to try to prove
          a point. We can see right through you.

  • Bethany Hacquoil

    I’m curious where you found that Daily Mail study? I would like to take a look at the original source

  • Valerio Musica

    What do you think about the fact that for the same job a woman makes $0.40 and a man $1?

    • Sarah Brinson

      debunked a million times

      • Sarah

        I’m not sure if it’s just the numbers you’re disputing there, but wage inequality is definitely still around.

    • Martha

      I think it is FAIR. I have always wondered why women have no shame in asking for
      equal pay when we know very well that we can not do the same amount of work in the same amount of time, admit it. Alot of women manipulate (and that’s not decent) in order to get a man to help her do her part of the job she can not handle. Most of the problems humans have today comes from lying. If we would be truthful and ADMIT wrongdoing our problems would mostly solve themselves. Eve was the same way.

  • Sandra Aleman

    Christian Feminism in one sentence: “The only man who runs my life is Jesus.”
    When I hear about new feminist ideas where you have to choose sides, I always think, “Is this against Christianity?” and if the answer is yes, then I think “Is this against God and His unchanging principle, or is this against the mainstream CULTURE that has developed AROUND Christianity?”
    I will choose God over feminism, but I will choose feminism over mainstream Christian culture.

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  • Michelle Hunter

    This article is very weak and makes ludicrous sweeping statements. Disappointing.

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  • I cannot go into extensive detail here, but the various messages and prophesies of Scripture must never be ignored.

    There are many throughout the Bible, but they are perhaps best represented by the 26 verses of Isaiah chapter 3. Often summarised by the words:-

    “When the power of Satan is at its height your leaders shall have the minds of children and women shall control them”.

    These words, particularly when put into context with America and my own country (the UK) in the 21st century, are become increasingly poignant as each year passes. It would be very unwise for any serious Christian to ignore them. Remember Christ’s warning to people who thought that they were genuine believers in Matthew 7:23 – “And then I will declare to them I never knew you. Be gone from my sight”.

  • Wanda McDonald

    All this subjugation thing is an illusion. An illusion designed to stroke men’s ego. In practice there is no leader or follower, no spouse is above the other spouse. I am so sorry so many of you can not see through the illusion and get what its saying!

    Think about it, the second part is instruction for the husband to love SACRIFICIALLY. Guess what that means for the husband???!? (No it is not speaking about the 1 in 10000000000 chance where he might have to physically defend her)

    When a husband has a disagreement with his wife, he has to SACRIFICE his own will, and give his wife her way. That means deferring to HER choice in the matter! That is loving self sacrificially! To select his own choice and ignore hers, is not loving self sacrificially!

    So who is really in control? Its an illusion! If he follows his own instruction its actually teaching equal authority (while giving men the illusion of control to stroke their ego) because if he is following his own instruction he will NEVER go against his wife’s will. And if she is following it, will never go against his. They will both want to make the other happy and neither will want their own will imposed.

    She is supposed to compromise her will for her husbands, and the husband’s will is instructed to be self sacrificial! It means every single say lay aside his own will, lay aside his own wants and give his wife hers. That means in disagreements he has to divert to HER! So while it’s an illusion that he CHOSE to side with her way, in reality, he diverted to her, so who is really in control?

    Your game and her show on at same time? Guess what, swallow your pride and give the tv to your wife. New toy for the garage for you vs that vacation she really wants to go on with you and the kids to have family time? Guess what! You got it, sacrifice the toy and give her the vacation. If a husband is following his own instruction he is essentially sacrificing his own will, and giving his wife hers.

    So the language may be different but both spouses are doing the same exact thing.

    And by the way there is no usage of the words obey or leader at all. Husband is not ever instructed to ‘lead’ and the wife is never instructed to ‘obey’ the words used are submit and sacrifice.

    But really —– to submit IS to sacrifice one’s will, and to sacrifice IS to submit one’s will!

    See, its an ILLUSION!

    • David Withington

      Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

      1 Corinthians 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

      • Wanda McDonald

        Hence the illusion. If you are doing your part by deferring to her self sacrificially, then her is being is just recriprocating. You can’t be loving sacrificially if you choose your own way over hers. That’s being selfish. As husband you are supposed to sacrifice your own wants and desires to give your wife hers. ALL THE TIME. If you are deferring to her to give her what she wants, then there is no hierarchy. As I said the wording makes it sound like it’s the mans choice to defer to his wife. Therefore he still feels like he is the one in control but it’s an illusion. In reality both spouses put each other above themselves. If a husband in any situation decides for himself and not his wife in anything at all. He has failed at loving self sacrificially (he didn’t give himself up for her. He didn’t give up his desires for hers). In that case she is not obliged to follow and obey. Think about it you say to your wife lets go out for dinner and then ask her what she wants. She says whatever you want dear in response. You say no it’s your choice to her. She obeys and chooses. You think you were in control the whole time but really she decided. In reality nobody was in control over the other. If instead you said we’re going to the sports bar and that’s it (even though you know she hates sports) That is not loving self sacrificially and she though she might oblige …you will be in the doghouse for awhile abd she will be hurt. The one who has the ‘illusory’ position of leader is not really leading anything except deference and sacrifice. The leader is supposed to become a servant. Remember the words ‘not so with you’? There is nothing about ordering someone to make sammiches. Women were not created to do men’s laundry and cook for them. Loving self sacrificially means the husband will do those things to do his share since he makes half the mess. Anyone can keep a house clean and still work. Better even if both men and women do chores together. Nobody wants to be shoehorned into the menial tasks.

        • David Withington

          I agree. The role model for a good leader is Jesus Christ who, although he was their leader, he was also their servant

          John 13:13-15 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

          Matthew 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

          • Wanda McDonald

            See the illusion now? Jesus (the person) did not order individuals around. Instead he gave himself up for them. He gave in to the will of those who killed him. In other words a husband who follows this, has to give up his will for the will of his wife. Meaning you have to give up YOUR decision to give her HERS – ALL THE TIME! Or else that is not loving SACRIFICIALLY. Why exactly are men called to do this willingly? Because men in history have done the opposite and chose their own desires and needs over their wife, while she was treated as an object. Under this new way of marriage, a husband has to give up his wants, in order to give his wife hers. And it has to be all the time or else its not truly being self sacrificial.

            So now who really has the last say in decision making?

            Loving Sacrificially is the SAME thing as submission. And submission is the SAME thing as loving sacrificially. There is no leading or following. Both are leading and following each other. In balance. There is not one in charge over the other.

            Jesus never called himself a leader by the way. Only a servant.
            Meaning a husband is to NEVER call himself a leader to his wife, but only a servant to her. Meaning you can never expect her to just obey your every whim and command. Your part is to put yourself BENEATH HER!

            So, is submission really about who has the last say? Or is it about just deferring your own will to give someone else theirs? That’s the SAME exact thing as being self sacrificial.

            So they are equal. There is no hierarchy or chain of command. Its an illusion.

            The wording is only the way it is, so that men get the feeling like it was their decision to lay down their desires for their wife’s. It gives men a sense that they are in control when in reality they are willingly to give up control. The more I look at it, its a kind of brilliant trickery on the male mind actually.

            But in the end, he has to give up his control to his wife. In return she also submits (both to his giving control over to her and giving up her own control, or the fight for control, since for long women fought against male control and its hard to give up that fight after so long) so then in the end, you have a blank slate where nobody wants to be in control and both want to work together as equals. The true design for marriage.

            If men stop trying to be in control, and instead give the decision to the wife, then the wife will automatically no longer fight them, and then both will work together automatically without wanting to exercise control over the other.

          • David Withington

            I don’t think you’ve read the gospels recently.

          • Wanda McDonald

            See, men just cant give up that control! Ego!
            Brilliant!

          • SUP

            maybe submitting to a man’s control will make you happier?

          • Wanda McDonald

            Nope. Not on your life. I am a career military woman 20 years and have male subordinates. I know what my leadership qualities are. At work I defer to command whether male or female. The men do the same. I’m not about to be a subordinate in my own home.

          • SUP

            Suit urself, but if ur naturally submissive and u rebel against that side of you , ur causing urself suffering

          • Wanda McDonald

            I’m not naturally submissive. AT ALL. I’m naturally dominant. Many men are naturally submissive too. We are diverse as humans. Let people make their own decisions on what makes them happy.

          • SUP

            People can make their own decisions for themselves if they need that experience and there’s a lesson for them to learn that will help them be happy. But if u choose to go against what is naturally healthy for you, you will suffer

          • Wanda McDonald

            What is healthy for someone as an adult is to not be suppressed by another enforcing their will over you. No adult should ever be treated like a minor child and have all will and authority taken from them by another. Suppression of a souls expression because someone thinks they deserve all ‘authority’ in a relationship is a crime against God.

          • SUP

            its not suppression, its guidance

          • Wanda McDonald

            And you don’t think spouses can guide each other to happiness as equals?? Because that’s where vast majority of marriages are… they both guide each other.

          • SUP

            That can also happen. Depends on the people

          • SUP

            But equality is about being equally happy and having equal worth

          • Wanda McDonald

            And you think someone can be happy if they have to just obey every whim of someone else and have no voice or will of their own??? You are seriously in need of help!

          • SUP

            but im talking about obeying someone who cares about ur safety, not someone whos abusive. also, unless it was a strick dominant/submissive relationship, you would still have a say over how u would be treated. people who are meant to be submissive shouldnt put up with abusive or oppressive relationships

          • Wanda McDonald

            Men assuming that women require to be under male control is no different than whites assuming that blacks were required to be under white control. Slave drivers thought they were doing the right thing and that the blacks were uncivilized. They actually thought that forcing them into submission on plantations was helping them and that they would be happy. Do you think the black slaves were happy to be slaves? The whites thought the blacks couldn’t achieve anything or lead themselves. But hey now that’s behind us and we have seen a black President, black scientists, doctors, etc. So it was not true was it? The slave drivers were actually holding the progression of the black people behind. It’s the SAME for women. Men think that women need to be controlled “for our own good”. That we don’t know what’s good for us. This thinking kept the progression of women halted for ages! BUt same parallel, we now have seen female Prime Ministers of UK, India etc. Female scientists, female doctors, lawyers, judges, prominent leaders in the community and society. This only happened because in (largely western) society the control over women was loosened. Now the vast majority of women are no longer obedient housewives whose entire life revolves around scrubbing floors, cooking and obeying their husband. Simply put, just as whites interfered with and stopped the progression of the black people as a whole (until they were freed), men are trying to (once again) control the progression of women and even reverse it.
            Sorry, but NO human has the right to dictate to another human and force them into submission except under a very few circumstances: a minor child, a person who is mentally incapacitated, or a convicted criminal who has forfeited their freedom as a human by committing a crime. A woman is a fully developed adult who has full faculties and NO MAN gets to just decide his way is best.

          • SUP

            no one is talking about slavery. slave drivers didnt care about whats best for blacks. im not saying for all women, being submissive is best for them

          • Wanda McDonald

            The general consensus was that the blacks were uncivilized and that by controlling them and dictating their lives they were actually helping them. The reason why I compared it, was that the action and reasoning was the same. Whether men think they actually care about a woman or not, by limiting her freedom, and making her submit when she doesn’t want to, or brainwashing her (as from childhood) that she is to be forever submissive and subordinate, then that is a crime against her humanity as a free soul.
            Anyway today most women are not submissive. I don’t think I know one submissive woman. All are living equal partnerships with their husbands. And if they have an issue with anything they are NOT afraid to to make it known to their husband! In fact I’d say that this is 99% of women in the west. They won’t cow toe to men, and are not afraid to speak up when they disagree on something, and most won’t be the first to cave when a disagreement happens. Most of the men I know WILL be the first to cave in an argument.

          • SUP

            again, when i say submissive, i dont necessarily mean completely submissive. i also mean mostly submissive. Forcing a woman to be submissive isnt necessarily a crime against humanity because its not necessarily harmful. it depends on the situation and the people involve. whites did not generally care about what was best for blacks. forcing a woman to be submissive is not necessarily brainwashing.

          • Wanda McDonald

            Its harmful if the woman doesn’t want to be submissive. Then it’s intruding on her freedom as a human. No human has the right to have that infringed upon just because the other person thinks the know what’s best. What one person thinks is best is not necessarily what is best for someone. I’ll give you an example: Lets say a husband thinks he knows whats best for his wife regarding a career decision and then forces her to make the wrong decision. As a result she either loses the job or ends up unhappy in the job. When she knew better about what decision to make, but he forced his will on her because he felt it was his right to dictate to her what to do. It was never his right to do that. But Christianity says it is. Now, in general, NOBODY likes to have someone always barking orders and telling them what to do. A career is one thing because its only during working hours. But a marriage is every aspect of your life. Vacation, evenings, weekends, the bedroom. You get the point. To have to be subordinate in your own home when you don’t want to be, is wrong especially when it pervades everything. Because it smothers who you are, and restricts your freedom to express yourself. Nobody will argue that children are in general frustrated at being directed all the time. Yes parents have their best interests at heart but you start to see in their teens when their own persona develops and then you have to tread lightly because you don’t want to squash that. You don’t want to kill the flame that will become them as an adult. So you start to give more freedom. No parent would exercise any sort of control over an adult child. Its the same with a husband and wife. No wife wants to be dictated to all the time because she is a full capable adult who DOES know whats best for herself (unless she is mentally ill). So yes, its a crime against HER humanity if she is forced into a subordinate / submissive role when she does not want to be.

          • SUP

            ur completely missing the point of what i am saying. telling someone what to do gives them greater freedom when done right. im talking about someone who actually knows what is best for the other person. a person isnt free if they keep making the wrong choices that make them suffer. you sound like you are too blinded by ur own ego to to be willing to submit to someone who knows better than u

          • SUP

            you sound like u want freedom with no respect to people who have higher authority than u because they know better

          • Wanda McDonald

            And if I know better and I have decided that I know better?

          • SUP

            than u take in charge

          • SUP

            u just hate men, u do haate men. ur not a voice for anyone

          • SUP

            its not necessarily harmful to a woman who doesnt want to be submissive

          • Wanda McDonald

            Same can be said for men

          • SUP

            yes it can

          • SUP

            its not necessarily a crime against her humanity because a woman does not necessarily know whats best for her, the same with men

          • SUP

            being subordinate does not necessarily restrict ur freedom

          • SUP

            forcing an adult to be submissive is not a restriction of freedom if they dont know what they are doing and their choices just make them suffer. if they dont know what they are doing and their choices keep making them suffer, they will only restrict their fredom

          • SUP

            freedom*

          • SUP

            i dont know where u live but women tend to be submissive.

          • Wanda McDonald

            I am in Canada. In the west at least, women are not submissive. Except for maybe those who play in BDSM circles. But then, they are only doing so in the bedroom mostly. In countries in the east, women are mostly only submissive because of cultural conditioning. Girls are taught their entire existence is to serve men and see their husband as a ‘God’ over them. If that is what you are taught all your life, then of course you will do it. Because you will actually think you are inferior. Some are now starting to surpass this bondage though. In India, in the cities anyway you can see it. People shunning the whole man is god over woman thing. But strict Muslim countries the women are submissive…. lest they get acid thrown in their face, or stoned to death.

          • SUP

            no, even in the west, women tend to be submissive. saying a woman should serve a man doesnt not necessarily make them inferior. you are too rebellious

          • Wanda McDonald

            Umm yes it does. The one being served is in a superior position. A king is served while a peasant does the serving. Who is inferior? Obviously the peasant. But they shouldn’t be because both as humans should be equal. I rebel against anything unfair by the way and proud of it. If you think being submissive is so good then why don’t you go do it?? Leave those of us alone who want our freedom.

          • SUP

            no it doesnt necessarily. being in charge and being submissive can be equal in the sense that both have have equal worth. also, im talking about marriage. one person being in charge in a marriage and one person being submissive can be equal when done right. what ur talking about isnt freedom

          • SUP

            freedom isnt freedom if it restricts ur options in the long run. doing whatever u want doesnt give u freedom because then u will do things that will restrict ur freedom in the long run.

          • SUP

            equallity doesnt necessarily mean sameness. equality can also mean having equal worth or value

          • SUP

            no, u sound like u rebel against the idea that people know better than u and u sound like u rebel against the idea that u might not always know whats best for u

          • SUP

            being in charge and being submissive can be equal in the sense that both have the same value or same basic rights or both are equally happy. equality doesnt necessarily mean being completely the same

          • SUP

            im not sure if im dominant or submissive but what u want doesnt sound like freedom

          • SUP

            equality first and foremost means being the same in worth and being the same in happiness

          • SUP

            a king and a peasant is not the same as a marriage. also, one being served and one doing the serving can be equality if both are equally happy and both positions have equal value or worth

          • SUP

            a person being in charge and a person being subordinate can be equality if both have equal happiness and have equal worth

          • SUP

            its not fair to let someone do what they dont know what to do and let them suffer because they dont know what they are doing

          • SUP

            there is nothing necessarily wrong with saying women should serve men because serving men does not necessarily harm women, even if its something they dont want to do in the beginning but it helps them later on in life

          • Wanda McDonald

            Same can be said for men… this isn’t a gender thing.

          • SUP

            no its not but women tend too be happy being submissive

          • SUP

            women arent submissive just because of cultural influences, there is also a biological influence too

          • SUP

            freedom does not mean doing what ever u want. freedom means doing what helps make you and everyone else happy. doing whatever u want is not necessarily the best thing for someone, not if they dont know what they are doing

          • SUP

            also, im not saying women who being submissive is best for them are necessarily completely submissive. forcing someone to be submissive is not necessarily wrong or dictating someone’s life is not necessarily wrong, it depends on the situation. some women are happiest in the long run being submissive and some are happiest being dominant but women tend to be submissive.

          • SUP

            a man can decide if his way is best if his way is actually best for her and he knows better, vice versa also

          • Wanda McDonald

            And if both spouses decide they know what is better for the other? What then? Then you have two people trying to dominate each other. Then how do you decide who gets to dominate who?

          • SUP

            the one who actually knows what is best

          • Wanda McDonald

            And when the man thinks he knows whats best and the woman also thinks she knows whats best??? Then what?? The christian view is that its always the woman who has to cave and the man always gets his way, even if the woman was the one who knows best.

          • SUP

            im not talking about the christian view. your missing the point of what im saying, im saying the one who actually knows better should lead, whether its a man or woman. women just naturally tend to be submissive and some women go against this naturally healthy part of them and make themselves suffer

          • Martha

            That’s not TRUE. True Christians know that we must please God and love
            our neighbor as ourselves. It is a no brainer for a TRUE Christian. The
            woman (me) would be happy to go first and show LOVE and please GOD.
            Why not? After all when I became a Christian (age 5) I raised my hand so
            God and Jesus the son of God and all the angels can see that I want to DO MY IMPERFECT PART in becoming holy. Who’s keeping count, I am not.
            I know God is.

          • Martha

            WRONG, the one that wants to please GOD first. Love your mate set the
            example, go first. Prove your love while you still have time (breath).

          • SUP

            no that is illogical

          • SUP

            just enjoy ur life and let god take care of everything else

          • SUP

            slavery would be like forcing someone to do something under inhumane or cruel conditions

          • SUP

            the important thing is long term happiness. for some women, being dominated helps them be happy in the long run

          • SUP

            forcing a women into submission isnt necessarily slavery. the same vice versa

          • SUP

            wanting to control someone is not necessarily selfish. not if u think it will jelp the person be happier in the long run. its basically guidance

          • SUP

            not all women know whats best for them, the same with men

          • Martha

            Woman are “given enough rope” to do as they choose. If they do not want
            to do what comes easy, women should bow their head and pray for guidance instead of following the crowd. Stand up for whats good, reject
            the way Eve and Adam. We must allow God to tell us what to do with our
            lives. It doesn’t hurt, like Satan wants us to believe.

          • SUP

            some people naturally enjoy helping and serving others and thats fine if they are happy and arent abused

          • Wanda McDonald

            Yes and that goes both ways… male and female. Many males like to serve others. This post is not about people voluntarily helping others. It’s about forcing one entire gender into a submissive ‘role’ based on nothing but what’s between their legs. I’m not against anyone male or female wanting to help others. I am against someone being forced into that position (or goaded into it) because of their gender.

          • SUP

            but thats only wrong if the person doesnt care if that makes the gender unhappy and it actually doees make them unhappy. also, its not based on just the gender, its based on psychological differences between the genders

          • Wanda McDonald

            Nobody being forced into anything is happy. If you were forced into doing something you didn’t want to do, would you be happy about it? And that just shows the selfishness of the other person wanting control anyway!

          • SUP

            in the long run, it can bring happiness if done right. also, wanting to control someone is not wrong if u think it will make the other person be happy and it actually does in the long run

          • SUP

            their voice and will would be to want to help their partner tough. plus what if they are selfish and dont care about their partner’s happiness, in that case letting have a voice or will of their own will would cause harm

          • Wanda McDonald

            That goes both ways. What you are describing is consensual dominant / submissive relations. Not forcing one into a position based on their gender. Just like some men and some women like to be submissive, or have submissive tendencies, doesn’t mean the vast majority of people are like that and in fact they are not. And its NEVER up to someone else to decide for someone what’s best for them – unless they are a minor or mentally incapacitated / criminal and under care of a doctor or in police custody. Outside of that no matter how selfish someone might be, it’s NOBODY else’s right to dominate them and force them into submission.

          • SUP

            i disagree. women tend to be submissive. also, i dont see why forcing someone into submission is wrong if the person being forced has destructive and selfish tendencies

          • Martha

            I truly want to obey every whim every day of my dear husband, father of our two sons.
            I always pray for health and time to do more for my husband. I have no shame in doing this. I love my husband more than anyone, except my God.
            More than my children of course, without my husband I would not have our
            two boys. My younger son has often said “my father taught us religion without even opening his mouth”. The Bible says we are to worship only
            our God. So I obey the Bible. I worship only God. HOWEVER, If it was not wrong, a grave sin, to worship my husband I would for all the good he does for us all.

          • Martha

            You’re on the wrong track!! Marriage is all about becoming a better person.
            Who knows you better than your mate. If you listen to their complaints instead of “wanting your rights” you can refine yourself and become holy.
            Holy in the image of our Creator. It’s a beautiful gifts God gives us to be
            better. LISTEN, marriage is not about being happy but about being HOLY.
            Eve was the first feminist. Look at the mess SHE caused. Adam wimped out.

          • SUP

            supression is oppressive control that makes a person unhappy. helpful control guides someone to becoming happier

        • SUP

          a ma n being in charge is not necessarily a bad thing. for some woman, letting a man take charge brings greater happiness for both. hierarchy isnt necessarily a bad thing. people gotta care about their and other’s happiness

          • Wanda McDonald

            Right just like the woman shouldn’t defer to the husbands wants in everything. The wife should not always sacrifice her wants and desires all the time either. The wife also has to think about her happiness too. And the couple leading together is not a bad thing. That way BOTH people’s happiness is taken into consideration. Not all women like to be dominated and controlled.

          • SUP

            For some people, being subordinate is the best thing for them. God just wants people to be happy

          • Wanda McDonald

            Right and that can be a male too if he is not a natural born leader. And for some, elevating each other to the same level is what makes them happy. Both husband and wife should treat each other as equal to themselves. If someone is looking at someone else as a subordinate they will innately treat that person as inferior and not trust their input on things. Biblical Christian marriage puts woman into the position of not being trusted to make sound decisions, seen as weaker, inferior, their input and desires are thrown aside and dismissed and everything becomes about what the man wants. She only gets anything at all because he gives it to her. Her own identity in that set up is completely destroyed as she is turned into a robot. That’s a crime against God’s creation if you ask me.

          • SUP

            treating someone as a subordinate does not innately treat them as inferior, not if you take care of their legitimate needs and wants and not if they genuinely dont know what is the right thing to do and not if you place their ability to serve as being equally as important to your ability to lead.

          • Wanda McDonald

            That doesn’t describe all couples though as MOST adults can make perfectly sound decisions for themselves. Majority of human adults want control over their own lives and not to be somebody’s ‘bi**c’ if you know what I mean. And in the remainder there are equally the amount of males who prefer to be submissive as females who prefer it. So there is no innate natural trait that women can’t make decisions go themselves and have to have a male dictate it for them. The ‘biblical’ view putting everyone into boxes based on gender don’t account for the many women who can lead. Or the many men who prefer submissive status. Or the vast majority who prefer to work as a team of equals where they both have equal input. It’s obvious that it was written in made mindset by males to dictate control over women and what better way to keep ‘women in line’ as subordinates than to say God said it was so. Christianity is all about control and power. Women are virtual slaves in this mindset. Without a free will without mind without opportunities without self expression as everything is expected to be how the man wants it. A smart woman brought up in Christiantiy will avoid marriage and if leadership is not allowed in church then she should avoid that church too. Become secular, spiritual, there are spiritual paths which give women and men the same rights.

          • SUP

            Wanting control over your lives is not necessarily good for someone, not if they don’t know what they are doing and will create unnecessary suffering. Woman tend to be more submissive than males but this is just in general. Wanting control women is not wrong if someone thinks it will help women be happier and it actually does help ten be happier. Think of it as guidance from someone that know better. Wanting to cOntrol someone is only wring if its selfish or oppressive comtrol. Also, I’m not saying all or most woman can’t make their own decisions . Just saying some are happier by being led from someone who has their best interest at heart

          • Wanda McDonald

            Just like some men also like being led by a woman who has heir best interest at heart. And women are not ‘typically’ submissive. Women are forced to be submissive through history. Males used physical strength to subdue women into being submissive but women didn’t WANT that. And it certainly doesn’t mean women were never capable to take the reins. Don’t paint us all with same brush. Otherwise I could say that males tend to be oppressive jerks who only want to be in power for selfish needs. I’m done with men wanting to control women and dictate women’s lives. Vast majority of women are not in general submissive. Not at all.

          • SUP

            women tend to be submissive and males tend to be dominant. being submissive is fine if it makes women happy and they dont put up with abuse

          • Wanda McDonald

            Women don’t tend to be submissive. Women only end up submissive BECAUSE of abuse and fear. It’s proven by the fact that with training in military women have been just as brave as men in Afghanistan etc. Someone only grows up being submissive because that’s what they are taught their whole childhood growin up. Assertiveness is also taught. Look at most marriages now in west the wife is FAR from a doormat!! She makes her voice heard and count for just as much!! Vast majority of adults don’t fall into either submissive or dominant. They are in the middle and that results in sharing of control and authority in the relationship and that is when it’s most healthy relationship.

          • SUP

            When I said women tend to be submissive, I meant they tend to be more submissive than they are assertive . Women tend to like being submissive than liking to being assertive overall. The majority of submissive women aren’t submissive because of abuse or fear. They are submissive either cause its natural for them and/or they were taught that it would help them and their relationships to be happy

          • Wanda McDonald

            Abuse fear and the third way is brainwashing. So yes it is taught. Girls are brainwashed into thinking they have no self worth and are incapable and after being told all their lives that they have to submit to a man and that god wants that of course some will actually follow that. Because they were brainwashed!!! That is the biggest crime against women. Men will pay for that.

          • SUP

            they are not taught to be submissive out of fear. girls are not taught to be submissive because they have no worth. only in dysfunctional societies are women taught to be submissive cause they have no worth. this doesnt change the fact women tend to prefer being completely or mostly submissive

          • Wanda McDonald

            I don’t know what women you’ve been around but every female I know will NEVER be a doormat!

          • SUP

            you dont have to be completely submissive to count as being a submissive person, you just need to be at least mostly submissive. some of the females you know probably are submissive, as in they might be more submissive than dominant. i dont know what you think a doormat is, but the submissive behavior im talking about helps women be happy and doesnt tolerate abuse. not sure what kind of females u interact with but i think its common for women to be mostly or all submisssive

          • Wanda McDonald

            Ahh no it’s not. Most women I know won’t leave decision making up to their husbands. In fact they all pretty much are in control of what goes on in the family. So they are more dominant and controlling than their husbands are. Of course they all discuss decisions. The end point is that both men and women should put the other first. They should work on decisions together. There should never be one controlling 100% of the marriage. And no none of the females I know are what you would call in any way submissive lol

          • SUP

            some relationships work better with one in charge and the other follows if the one in charge knows what to do and isnt abusive

          • Martha

            Another no no. The Creator hates divorce, so do his TRUE worshipers

          • SUP

            women are not necessarily submissive because of fear or abuse

          • SUP

            being brave in afghan only proves women are exercising their masculine side and/or they are trying to become a man psychologically

          • Wanda McDonald

            Bravery does not belong to men!!!!! That’s the biggest rubbish I ever heard! Men trying to make themselves the better gender.

          • SUP

            bravery os masculine and thats fine. people are a mix of feminine and masculine. theres nothing necessarily wrong with a woman exercising masculine traits

          • Martha

            YOU’RE not brave if YOU’RE not scared. Men were created first, does
            that upset you, emotionally.

          • SUP

            Women tend to like being submissive more than being assertive

          • Wanda McDonald

            No women do not ‘like’ being submissive maybe a few but most do not. Nobody actually likes having their lives controlled by someone else. Every soul who is on the receiving end of being controlled will feel the frustration of not being able to act on their own. What’s natural is humans have free will and to mess with someone’s free will as a human will have repurcussions like Stockholm syndrome and other mental issues. Lack of self confidence, self loathing lack of self worth.

          • SUP

            no, women tend to like being completely or mostly submissive in a relationship. this is fine if its not out of self hatred and it doesnt lead them to be abused

          • SUP

            Women tend to be submissive because its naturally to them and/or because they were taught to be submissive . It’s not usually because of fear or abuse

          • SUP

            All or at least most people are a mix of feminine and masculine traits

          • SUP

            Woman typically are submissive so they typically will be happier being subordinate and this is fine as long as they aren’t being abused by their dominant partner. The Catholic Church is an example of control becoming oppressive and abusive, it doesn’t care about the happiness of women

          • Wanda McDonald

            That is a bunch of BS! The reason why women tended to be submissive over history is because they were told that was how they were supposed to be and males enforced it with physical force! Women are not “typically” submissive. What a bunch of BS!! Some minority might be but majority do not want their lives dictated while they play the role of servant. Some males and some females like to be submissive. Vast majority of humans fall in the middle where they want to have certain amount of control over their lives and work as an equal member of a team.

          • SUP

            there are genuine biological differences between the genders that effect the general population. women tend to be submissive but im not saying being submissive s necessarily wrong or that its necessaily wrong for a woman to be dominant

          • SUP

            Women tend to be submissive so being submissive in a relationship will tend to be the what gives woman greater happiness and this is fine as long as they don’t accept abuse or oppressive treatment. Also, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with a woman being dominant. A few woman are naturally dominant and even submissive ones have a dominant side to them and that’s fine as long as it helps them and the relationship be happy.

          • SUP

            equality is about having equal worth, equal value. its about helping people become equally happy

          • SUP

            Seeing someone as subordinate will not innately treat that person as inferior. Also, the person might listen to the advice of the subordinate if the dominant person things the subordinate knows what she is talking about. Equality is about being equally happy and having equal worth . Treating someone as a subordinate I’m the right way means caring about their wants and needs too. The subordinate’s identity is not destroyed if her identity is being submissive, as in serving gives them the greatest amount of joy

          • SUP

            A wife should only listen to the Man’d every wants if it will help make the relationship happy

          • SUP

            God said in the bible that the man is the leader of the household if ur going by the bible I mean

        • SUP

          but people gotta think about their happiness also

        • SUP

          you are not suppose to sacrifice your wants and desires to your wife all the time. you are suppose to care about your and your wife’s wants and desires. you shouldnt sacrifice your needs and desires if that will cause the greater suffering. you need to do what will cause the lesser evil

    • Jewels

      “We don’t need feminism to inform us of our worth and value. God already says we’re equally valuable”
      is basically the same logic people tried to apply to civil rights for black people

      Also would you say the same thing about a slave? That oh well you don’t need abolitionism because you’re already free in Christ

    • Jewels

      Ah sorry Wanda I just meant to reply to the whole article!

  • Emmanuelle Harris

    Here’s my view on feminism: I don’t want to be defined first by my gender. It is not the most important thing about me. I am so much more than just female. For example, first and foremost, I am a person. I am a person with my own unique personality, giftings, desires, and opinions. And it’s true, some (maybe most) of them do not fit with the traditional conservative Christian views of femininity. Some of them do, and that’s fine, but what do I do with the ones that don’t? This article says that women shouldn’t strive to be the same as men, and my issue with that is that it completely fails to take into account who I am as an individual. In some areas, I am gifted in the same way that some men are gifted. In those areas, I am technically “the same” as men. But not all men, because not all men are the same. Both men and women are people first, so to try to shove everyone into one of two categories is ridiculous. Who fits perfectly into the image of femininity? Surely not every woman. Who fits perfectly into the image of masculinity? Surely not every man. What I enjoy about feminism is that it gives me space to be an individual, not a category. Is it perfect? No. Does it get everything right? No. But it allows me to figure out who I am supposed to be on the basis of my humanity, the basis of what I like, what I can do, what I’m good at, instead of telling me that I must be a certain way because I was born female.

    Also, as a side note, check out Dorothy Sayers’ collection of essays called, “Are Women Human.” It has some really great stuff on this topic from a Christian viewpoint.

    • Allison

      God made humans male and female and said it was very good. We are all made in his image and about half of humans God creates are his created sons he desires to adopt..and about half are his created daughters he desires to adopt…Are you complaining that your identity shouldn’t be ‘daughter of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?! How can any woman be ungrateful over the most amazing thing God could ever do for us! He LOVES us, as his own daughters. No more whining about that! Plus the GOSPEL….Jesus loves us and died for all our sins even though we are sinful. He did not die for us because we are good at certain things. Our identity should never be from what WE do. It should always be from what God has done. Please Holy Spirit move in these churches who confuse the women in their identities…help us all keep our minds and hearts filled with You, not any crappy ideas created by people. Keep us from deception, and keep us as salt to the world of many lost and confused people.

      • Emmanuelle Harris

        I absolutely think that my identity should be as a child of God. But what is the distinction between being a child of God and a daughter of God? Is there one? Should there be one? I am definitely not ashamed to be a woman. I have no problem whatsoever with being a woman. What I do have a problem with is being seen as a woman first and a person second. Being a woman does not define everything I am.

        I do have to say that I resent the accusation that I have derived my identity not from God but from what I do. Respectfully, I cannot see how my above comment implied that I take for granted the love that God has for me. All that I was trying to say is that I would like the freedom to do what I am gifted (by God) to do without people trying to tell me that I can’t or shouldn’t because it isn’t feminine. My authentic identity as a child of God does not fit with everything traditional gender roles say that it should, and I would love for that to be celebrated and not looked down upon by Christians.

        I am sorry if my comment implied something that I did not mean to say.

        • Allison

          Some phrases that are red flags are: “resent the accusation”, “without people trying to tell me that I can’t or shouldn’t”, “because it isn’t feminine”, “traditional gender roles”. I did rebuke you for being ungrateful if you are ungrateful for God’s design. Wise people are thankful for rebukes, and want wisdom…they don’t get angry over it. I responded to your comment in the first place because it sounds against the bible. so my response is for your good, I care that you are believing and or preaching something that isn’t from God’s perfect words. The second flag…caring what people think instead of God is a huge trap I am fighting against too. Third And fourth flags are phrases that can mean a lot of different things. Feminine and traditional gender roles, if you are referring to anything God has spoken about women then your clear need is to choose God’s way instead of world-made ways. But if you’re talking about something not even in the bible then remove that from your cares because we follow Christ, not man made traditions. (Ie ‘must wear long skirts’ is NOT in the bible). But I hope you’re not referring to woman leading men because that is clearly not the way God made us and he is very clear that Christianity never have women pastoring men or teaching men. And if you are willing to think about what God has spoken, then you will understand it. As a wife, I don’t want my girlfriend giving my husband spiritual advice, I want a man mentoring him! Thanks for that discussion, Prayers.

          • Emmanuelle Harris

            I am sorry, but I fail to see how my comment on this article is against the Bible. Can you point out something specific in my comment that is against the Bible? From my perspective, all I said is that I have a problem with how traditional Christianity has defined gender roles. I have no problem whatsoever with what the Bible says about men and women. What I do have a problem with is people interpreting what the Bible says about men and women (which is actually surprisingly little) as a set of iron-clad restrictions that seem slightly silly in light of passages in the Bible about women like Deborah and Lydia. Some women are, if these parts of the Bible are to be believed, capable leaders called by God to lead people of both genders. Is leadership, even spiritual leadership, something that is completely off limits for women according to the Bible? I would venture to say no. Is it appropriate or fitting for every woman to lead? No, just as it would not be fitting for every man to lead. Not everyone is gifted in leadership, but it would seem odd to me if the gift of leadership was somehow only given to men.

            Regarding what you said about worrying about what people say, I completely agree that our focus should be on God and His approval, not on what other people think. The pressure put upon us by others to conform to what they think is right is a very real thing, however. God’s opinion is certainly the only one that matters, but the things you hear from others can still be extraordinarily influential and/or harmful. I have been told that I must get married, that I must submit to every man I meet, that I must be maternal and submissive and calm and meek and mild… The list goes on. Is it bad to be maternal? Absolutely not. Is it important to be calm and submissive? In certain situations, yes, but those are not qualities that only women must strive to cultivate. Neither are strength and protectiveness and courage virtues that only men must work to have. I have been told that I must try to cover up my natural gifts of a fighting spirit and the ability to lead and speak and be tenacious and stubborn precisely because I am a woman. I have been told that it displeases God to be the way I am. Those kinds of comments are hurtful and marginalizing; they have made me feel as though I cannot be who I am as well as be a good Christian.

            I am very truly sorry if I in any way implied that I am unhappy with what the Bible says about what it means to be a woman. I am happy with God-defined femininity, just not with the gender roles I have been given as my model of what a Christian woman ought to be.

          • Allison

            “Third And fourth flags are phrases that can mean a lot of different things. Feminine and traditional gender roles, if you are referring to anything God has spoken about women then your clear need is to choose God’s way instead of world-made ways. But if you’re talking about something not even in the bible then remove that from your cares because we follow Christ, not man made traditions. (Ie ‘must wear long skirts’ is NOT in the bible). But I hope you’re not referring to woman leading men because that is clearly not the way God made us and he is very clear that Christianity never have women pastoring men or teaching men. And if you are willing to think about what God has spoken, then you will understand it. As a wife, I don’t want my girlfriend giving my husband spiritual advice, I want a man mentoring him! Thanks for that discussion, Prayers.” As I said, it depends what you are implying by those words ‘feminine’ and ‘traditional gender roles’. So we are in agreement with deciding what is good and right, from ONLY God’s word. So if you think you should do something, ask God first. He is our Father after all 🙂 From what I have read, I know we are not to teach or have authority over men in the church. Debra led men before The Holy Spirit spoke about women leading in the church after Christ was risen. The bible also says our beauty comes from gentleness and quietness, not from our looks. I even stopped wearing makeup for this reason. But getting into the specifics of how to avoid outward beauty is very much everyone’s own conscience with the Lord. I hope I have cleared some things up but I don’t mind if you want to discuss more.

          • Emmanuelle Harris

            Is beauty only from gentleness and quietness, or can it come from other admirable qualities as well? I would say that this passage in the Bible, though specifically addressed to women, ought to apply to both men and women. No one’s focus should be on their outward appearance.

            Also, why would the coming of Christ eliminate the ability of women to lead?

          • Leandra “the Unicorn Reader” L

            Omg don’t bother arguing with people like that anymore hahah. There is nothing that implies rigid stereotypical gender roles in the Bible. The topics of discussion are headship and leadership within the church and marriage (and I am strictly egalitarian on those topics) and there is NOTHING in there about being ‘feminine’ and being ‘masculine’. So much stupid cultural stuff. You be the woman that God has made you to be and relish in it!

  • Mary

    It seems to me that it is antifeminists, not feminists, who put themselves above God–or on a level with God. As a feminist, I believe that each human being has an obligation to cultivate their God-given talent, and heed the calling God provides. As a feminist, I value God’s creation in its diversity, and that includes human diversity. We are not all alike. Antifeminists, and those who promote rigid patriarchy, claim to speak for God, to know the will of God for others. This claim–that you are able to discern God’s design for another human being–is hubristic to say the least. A feminist acts from a place of humility, graciously heeding God’s voice, and working for justice without self-interest, so that every human being is free to do the same.

    • SUP

      i just want to say, patriarchy isnt necessarily bad and oppressive

      • Wanda McDonald

        Neither is matriarchy, which existed prior to agricultural age and for much longer in human history.

        • SUP

          Yes I agree

        • Amanda

          Matriarchy was not much longer in human history. God and Jesus are the oldest in the world ( Jesus existed before he was born on earth ), Judaism is the oldest religion in the world. I’m okay with submitting to my husband as long as he ” a husband must love his wife as Christ loved the church.” that was written in the new testament. If you have not already, I prayed that you will pray to Jesus Christ and accept Him.
          My husband listens to me too.

  • Jennifer J

    You guys clearly have no real understanding of feminism. This article is ridiculous. Why don’t you go out and actually read some books about feminism? Get yourself educated on something besides the bible? eh?

    • SUP

      no, modern feminism in general is crazy

  • jaci

    So as a women it is my responsibility to know that I am valued equally and loved by God just as much as any man? Okay, that’s fine. I will put all my trust in God for the rest of my life and I have. But while I’m on earth, serving my purpose, a purpose that God created for me, I’m supposed to be devalued by society? Told I’m only worth my biological functions to reproduce and keep a man company? Then why did God create women just as intellectually capable? Ill give you that yes, we are created with different biology, but as people, men and women can equally achieve anything they want. Without feminism Kristen, you wouldn’t have been able to post this article to express your opinions on feminism and its conflicts with Christianity because you would be at home rearing your children being told that you don’t have a voice because your voice doesn’t matter, only your reproductive system. Now is that God’s word? or is that society? God loves all of His children and I believe he created us all equally. I think you can be a Christian and a Feminist and I believe that doesn’t make you any less of a Christian, and I don’t believe being a Christian makes me any less of a Feminist.

    • Allison

      The issue I believe, is entirely about the definition of feminism. At one time, feminism was good. Its mission was to educate a chauvinist society that women and men are all equal in Christ, as this is what God has told us clearly. But after women obtained some recognition of that, there have been anti Christian or confused Christian feminists deciding they wanted MORE. They want to have everything exactly the same as men, as if we are men. This includes all sinful ways of men: arrogant education and career success boasting, refusal to put children before career, refusal to submit to any of spouse’s needs, refusal to listen to any men in authority, it’s all just rebellion. Now, added to this proud, self-seeking, man-hating evils…feminism has also included, valued, and worshipped CHILD SACRIFICE. But oh, can’t say anything about what abortion actually is because that is ‘scare rehetoric’. Millions of Americans voted for a woman who said she supports partial birth abortions. That is extremely messed up. This is the power that the evil kind of feminism has brought about- having millions of women and men check off the name of a woman, while knowing she supports extremely brutal baby murder. Feminism is now evil. We need a new mission. Babyism. They are not equal right now, and as women, we need to step up and fix the horrible damage we have done!

    • SUP

      men and women are equal but not in the same way. they have equal worth but in different ways. you seem to be missing the point of the article

      • Wanda McDonald

        Those different ways don’t translate into one being subordinate to the other though. In any relationship where one had full control over the other that’s not equality, that’s not equal but different, that’s just unequal. To have equal worth and value, ones desires and input must have equal worth and value or else it’s only lip service.

        • SUP

          No, equality doesn’t have to mean equal in power. Equality could just me of equal value. Being subordinate is just as important being dominant . Equality of happiness is the important thing

          • Wanda McDonald

            And if a man wants to be subordinate to a dominant woman? Will say the same thing?? You are describing BDSM. Vast majority of people do not live their lives like a BDSM fantasy!!! Its real life. Where real decisions need to be made. Someone not having any say in real life decisions that affect them is absolutely WRONG. And always will be!

          • SUP

            i am not talking about BDSM. someone not having any say in real life decisions that affect them is bot necessarily wrong. its not wrong if they dont know whats best for them and they need guidance

          • Wanda McDonald

            Please say you are not suggesting women are incapable of knowing what’s good for them.

          • SUP

            I’m not suggesting all but I’m sure there are those out there who don’t know what’s good for them . You might be one of them too

          • Wanda McDonald

            And what about males who don’t know what’s good for them? Gender should not be used as the litmus test. There is no difference between genders as to decision making ability!! To suggest so is just ludicris!

          • SUP

            if males dont know whats best for , then its best for them too be told what to do by someone who has their best interest at heart

          • SUP

            I’m not saying all woman are incapable of knowing what’s best for them for there are those out there

        • SUP

          Yes it can. Being subordinate has equal worth to be dominant. Some people are happiest by doing what others want them to do

          • Wanda McDonald

            No it isn’t. Who is worth more to a ship? A deck hand at the lowest rank or the Captain?? You can easily do without a deckhand, there is no equal worth there. Their worth is same as their rank. Subordinate = less. In a marriage, with only two people you dont need a Captain and a deck hand to boss around. There are no checks and balances like an HR team to ensure the so called Captain doesn’t abuse their power. In a team of two, BOTH people’s desires and wishes and opinions on decisions etc need to have equal weight!

          • SUP

            marriage is different then a ship. being a subordinate in marriage can have equal worth to being dominant in a marriage, it can have equal value that ensures the marriage is happy because both are equally important. you dont give 2 people equal power in a marriage if one person doesnt know what is the best thing to do for the marriage and has destructive habits. you need at least 2 people to have a marriage, thats why being a subordinate can be equal to being dominant when done right

        • SUP

          If one partner has full control of a relationship, that’s fine as long as the person isn’t abusve and isn’t oppressive and takes care of the subordinate partner. Equality is first and foremost about being equally happy

          • leahtheme

            No.
            That’s fine if the other one WANTS for their partner to have control over them. In a woman HAS to stay at home and HAS to give birth to a number of children she doesn’t want and HAS to be silent and has no authority then it is surely wrong. There is no other explanation.

            Plus, having equal rights doesn’t mean what you said, it means that in a relationship a man has one position and a woman has the EXACT same position. Now THAT is feminism. Not “men should protect woman”, “men are the head of the house” or “women should have no authority”.

            Remember that.

            And you can be a 100% feminist and a 100% Christian.

          • SUP

            i dont care about feminism, im talking about being equally happy. equality and equal rights is about being equally happy and have equally important roles, not necessarily the same roles. you need to remeber that equality doesnt necessarily mean sameness. If a woman is going through what your saying, that only wrong if she has the right reasons for not wanting to stay at home and give birth and if the husband is abusing power for selfish reasons that doesnt care abut the wife”s happiness. if she doesnt want to stay at home and give birth to kids becuase she is being mean or selfish and doesnt care how negatively that would impact the husband and the relationship, then its okay if the husband refuses to give in to this bad behavior. im not saying the husband can rape her to get her pregnant though or make actual threats that would jeopardize the woman”s safety, but he doesnt have to support this bad behavior and he can refuse to do stuff for her until she corrects her behavior as long as what he refuses to do doesnt make the woman suffer

          • SUP

            equality is about equal worth

          • Amanda

            The disciple of Jesus Christ said ” a husband must love his wife as Christ loved the Church”. It also says ” husband and wives must submit to each other.”
            My husband listens to me, I am not silent with my husband. When he does something or says something I disagree with, I say something to him but it should be respectful while saying it. I also listen to him.

          • Martha

            True Christians don’t need or CLAMOR for their rights. Life is not fair, basic. Life is not about being happy. Life is TRUTH, worship your
            Creator, we don’t get to make the rules. So be modest, EVE had the same problem that Christian women fight daily. We are on this earth to make
            a name for ourselves with God. We will make a name, the choice is ours
            if it’s a good name or bad name. We don’t have long to do this.

          • jaci

            To be equally happy, you must share equal duties, to share equal duties you must be treated as equal people. The bible never preaches patriarchy in humanity. It is humanity that takes advantage of societal roles.

          • SUP

            thats not for everyone. different people need different ways to be happy. im not religious but the bible did say wives should submit to there husbands.also, patriarchy can be used to help or hinder people”s happiness, the same with matriarchy. neither of these 2 systems are necessarily wrong as long as the right people are in charge

          • SUP

            the bible did endorse patriarchy . patriarchy and matriarchy are not necessarily wrong. equality doesnt necessarily mean sameness. for some people, they are treated equally by sharing the same duties because they are the same in that area of life. for others, they are treated equally by doing different things that are equally important because they have different skills and knowledge that makes them each unique and treating them the same diminishes their uniqueness. sometimes treating people equally doesnt mean sameness but instead means taking into considerations each ones specials skills and knowledge and making the best use of them

          • Wanda McDonald

            Right and if women are not equally happy with playing the part of second fiddle (subordinate)? And what if a male wants to be the subordinate role?

          • SUP

            if the women isnt happy, then she can talke to her husband about how to change thiings. if a male wants to be subordinate, thats fine if it makes him genuinely happy

          • Martha

            Being a Christian is not about being happy, it is about becoming holy. If she isn’t happy then she should pray and do whats right NOT WHAT FEELS GOOD.
            As for the husband, he too needs to pray for direction from his Creator, and step up to the plate, as well as pray for the wife he chose.
            It’s not that hard. “If you think you can or if you think you can’t you’re right!”

          • SUP

            you will never understad jesus if you keep thinking like that

          • SUP

            no point in religion if it doesn’t improve life

    • Allen Lamb

      Please remove opinion and feeling from your views and ask God to TELL you how to view man and woman. Way too much worldly views/ spin / translation and not enough biblical. Christ showed us the blueprint. He said while on earth he submitted to the father so PLEASE I EMPLORE YOU ALL, DO NOT VIEW THE WORLD SUBMIT NEGATIVELY, THAT IS A TRICK OF SATAN HIMESELF. EVEN CHRIST HAD TO SUBMIT SO HOW ARE WE TOO GOOD TO SUBMIT. (YALL SUBMIT TO YALL BOSSES 5 DAYS A WEEK!) As a man I submit to Christ and my wife submits to me and our children submit to us. That is how it is intended. We are blessed because we understand this fundamental truth.

  • Sarah

    So I’ve been doing some extensive googling on the issues surrounding Christianity and Feminism. I have been a Christian my whole life and I come from a Christian family. I am also a woman studying for a degree in Maths. My ability is not diminished on account of my gender. However, because of the society we live in today, my future career prospects and the way I will be percieved and judged by wider society is very significantly affected by my gender. Feminism is relevent to me. It seeks to address these issues. Where does that leave me as a Christian?

    I would like to suggest that for centries now, the church has been using God’s holy name as an excuse to uphold these oppressive patriachal and white-supremesist social structures. The church was against feminism back when the Suffragettes were campaigning for the right to vote. Was this stance founded in theology, or in society? If the answer is the former, then does the church still oppose women having the right to vote? Any opinion that goes against the tide of society will inevitably be met with resistance by those in power. While I genuinely believe that many church leaders feel it is God’s will for women not to undertake leadership roles (for example), I question whether that belief is founded in theology, or society. The bible is a radical book and Christians should be radical people. We are to go into the world “like salt”, conforming to society will make us useless.

    In light of the above, I am aware that I myself am not immune from the socialisation of a culture that is sinful. Therefore I ask honestly, can someone tell me the difference between men and women? Other than that they are to compliment one another as equal partners (or something along those lines) because I’ve heard all of it before. I want to know, what is it that men have that women don’t? What is it that women have that men don’t? (Beyond the obvious physical differences). If we are both created in God’s image, are we really so different that we don’t deserve an equal say in the workings of the society we all must live in?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this. I look foward to any responses.

  • Saltasaurus

    I:)am:)trying:) not:)to:)be:))that:)angry:)feminist:):)but:)this:)website:)is::)testing:)me:)))) 🙂

  • leahtheme

    now this is why i’m an atheist
    thanks for helping me to be sure of my atheist-for-life decision!

    • Mitch

      So every Christian is a sexist. OK. See, this is why your movement of anger and hate disguised as righteousness is going to fail. You just hate people who love God. Good luck trying to change the world for the better with that mentality. And there are millions of women on this planet who love God. Did you ever maybe, just maybe, think that your perspective on things just might be wrong?

      • leahtheme

        i don’t hate people who believe in God
        i hate what they teach

        just like you have the “hate the sin, love the sinner” technique for homosexuals/bisexuals/any other sexuals except straight, i have that technique for Christians, i love them but i hate their religion

        sucks doesn’t it?
        well know you see how it is to walk in shoes of bisexual feminists(jk, you will never know the pain)

        • Mitch

          Nor will you know mine.

          • Saltasaurus

            You liked an article that literally said women are intellectually inferior. Ain’t nobody care about your man pain.

          • Amanda

            It doesn’t say in the Holy Bible that women are intellectually inferior. Islam’s quran says women are intellectually inferior, but not God or Jesus say that recorded in the Holy Bible.

          • Saltasaurus

            I was talking about the misogynistic redpiller article he upvoted but whatever. Thanks for your unnecessary and unwanted Islamophobia I guess.

          • Amanda

            It is not ‘ isalmophobia ‘ to know and show that the quran has lied about women.
            ‘ muhammad’ of the quran lied and said ” women are like domestic animals”.
            It is not unnecessary to say that.
            I am not afraid of islam, i am against it, although I do not hate muslims. Jesus Christ said: ” love your enemies” ” pray for those who persecute you”.
            I think you may call that unwanted too, but it’s okay.

          • Saltasaurus

            I still fail to see how anything you said was relevant.

          • Martha

            I Care

          • Martha

            Christians are proud to have DUTIES over rights. We don’t need rights.
            Duties is how TRUE Christians serve our God and neighbor.

          • Saltasaurus

            Wow Martha, a caring soul like you should found a charity to help angsty misogynists call women objects on the internet

        • Amanda

          Jesus Christ will help bisexual feminists with their confusion, pain, and to help them only be attracted to men if they ask for help. It is sin and women being attracted to women is unnatural. Jesus Christ will help them overcome it if they repent.

      • Wanda McDonald

        Why does loving God always have to be synonymous with hating women? Seeing women as subordinate, giving women less rights and autonomy and less leadership roles? Why does loving God always have to mean giving women a lesser life than men?

      • Saltasaurus

        “Movement of anger and hate” says the redpiller

    • Amanda

      You rejected God who made you and the Messiah, Jesus Christ, he sent. You are not morally superior to God. If you don’t accept Jesus Christ you will miss out on life while you are on earth and not notice the true message, you may lack protection from God ( because there is danger on earth from some people and some animals and there are demons ), and your afterlife will be painful and permanent. God did order the punishment of rapists by death, after He sent Jesus Christ they can ask for forgiveness and be spared. If you ask Jesus Christ to lead you to the proper Bible study you will find that God and Jesus are not sexist and are not against women.

    • Leandra “the Unicorn Reader” L

      I get your issue with that law. At first it sounded horrific to me too but you really do need to take the cultural context into consideration. During the OT times women were sold off by their fathers as brides (which was never condoned by God btw) and their value was very much tied with their virginities. So let’s say a man took a woman and took her virginity and then left her to be (without marrying her) no one would ever want to marry her. She would be considered “spoiled goods” and she would basically lose her entire inheritance. With this law the man was either forced to marry her and if he didn’t (which a lot of the men didn’t) he would have to pay her father money. Either of those two options was culturally and financially preferable compared to her never marrying and becoming an orphan once her parents died. The only way for a woman to have a decent future in that culture was to marry. Now you might say, well her rapist would be a horrible husband to her, who would want to be stuck with someone the likes of him? That might be true, but you have to keep in mind that a) husbands were under the law and weren’t allowed to act abusively towards their wives (Exodus 21:10-11, 18-19, Deuteronomy 24:5) and b) even if she would have married another man he probably (in most occasions) wouldn’t have been more loving or caring. Marriage in those days was simply a contract to ensure the safety and well-being of women and to ensure offspring to bring forth the inheritance to the man/woman.

      God doesn’t usually charge in with his laws and demand a change immediately. He works subtly with the (current) cultures and ensures as much safety/well-being to both parties as he could.

    • joesmith

      Actually love this post. Now revel in your rebellion and go away to die forever. Atheism is truly the best decision for the damned. Puts them where they belong. And if we are wrong you won’t be laughing because none of us will exist. Atheism: the best lose lose on the planet 🙂 you lose if we are right and you lose if your right.

  • Jewels

    “We don’t need feminism to inform us of our worth and value. God already says we’re equally valuable”
    is basically the same logic people tried to apply to black people when they wanted equal rights.
    Also would you say the same thing about a slave? That oh well you don’t need abolitionism because you’re already free in Christ

  • OrangeGirl

    I just can’t take this blog anymore. So many things you say and preach are so backwards and sick. You perpetuate this victim culture by not allowing people to stand up for themselves or one another because it is deemed wrong by biblical standards. You give medical advice on things you shouldn’t. You spread hate and misinformation. This blog is sickening and it makes me sad that people will actually listen to backwards beliefs like this.

  • jayne190

    I don’t agree. As a Christian, I do consider myself to be a feminist. I consider myself to be a moderate in this movement, as I don’t agree with the more radical aspects of the movement.

    • joesmith

      Picking and choosing parts out of a movement is equally hypocritical to picking and choosing parts of a religion to follow/believe in. I bet you simply label yourself feminist to be likeable but the truth is you don’t hold the tenets. You can’t serve two masters. You can’t believe marriage was created by god and then dictate what a marriage should look like. Either god created it and it looks like he wants it to be or he is fake and we are free to define reality as we see fit.

  • Ali

    Feminism can be used to demand respect for all that God has given you the ability to do. I know for a fact that God did not create me to submit to a man and keep my mouth shut, or else he wouldn’t have given me the ability to be an intellectual. Firstly, you can be pro-life and anti-abortion while still supporting a woman’s right to choose what she does with her own body. I completely agree that abortion is wrong, but lets remember that he without sin can cast the first stone.Want to know how Christians should stop abortion without trying to control the lives of women? Participate in programs that help struggling mothers, facilitate inexpensive adoption, and make sure that the children are not born into abusive,unhealthy, or unloving families. Secondly, at no point in my feminist thought have I EVER rejected God in any way shape or form. That literally doesn’t make sense, does that mean that the civil rights movement is also anti-God because they demanded to be treated like equals? Thirdly, I’m not sure what feminists you’ve been interacting with, but I have never met anyone like the ones you described.If you refer to Timothy 2:11 as youre basis argument then I hope you follow it as strictly as you preach it and completely submit to men and remain quiet. I suggest that you reread the bible. Read that we were all created in Gods image regardless of race or gender or whatever else. Read that we are all one in Jesus Christ.

    • joesmith

      I don’t understand, your a feminist and say you would never submit to a man. So clearly no man is ever above you. Which means Jesus is your equal. Which means you are not a Christian and therefore have no place in this discussion. You can be intellectual and submit to a godly man. When he strays you have a duty to point it out. Does that mean divorce when he doesn’t listen. The world says yes. God says pray and let him work on the man and you be patient. I don’t imagine you would ever wait on gods timeline since Jesus is equally man and therefore your equal and you won’t wait on a man.

      • chirsc62

        I wonder how many Christian people here condemning feminism have loveless marriages held together only by the fear of condemnation for separating, I certainly don;t see much evidence of the love of man let alone Jesus in the way they communicate with others.

  • Chad

    Guess what.

    1 Timothy 2:11-15
    1 Corinthians 14:34-35
    Titus 2:3-5
    1 Corinthians 11:3-9
    Proverbs 3:15-18
    Ephesians 5:22-23
    1 Peter 3:1-22
    Colossians 3:19
    Deuteronomy 22:8-9
    Genesis 3:16

    Your welcome. Lol

    • Chad

      You’re ****

  • Allen Lamb

    Please remove opinion and feeling from your views and ask God to TELL you how to view man and woman. Way too much worldly views/ spin / translation and not enough biblical.

    Christ showed us the blueprint. He said while on earth he submitted to the father so PLEASE I EMPLORE YOU ALL, DO NOT VIEW THE WORLD SUBMIT NEGATIVELY, THAT IS A TRICK OF SATAN HIMESELF. EVEN CHRIST HAD TO SUBMIT SO HOW ARE WE TOO GOOD TO SUBMIT. (YALL SUBMIT TO YALL BOSSES 5 DAYS A WEEK!) As a man I submit to Christ and my wife submits to me and our children submit to us. That is how it is intended. My family is blessed because we understand this fundamental truth.

    We Christians need to focus on sharing the gospel! This world will never be just and is coming to an end one day. Christ will bring justice one day so we just need to focus on doing justice in our everyday lives and leave these groups and identities to this lost world who thinks they need their heaven here on earth.

    • Wanda McDonald

      So why can’t a woman submit to Christ as an equal with her husband? There is a huge difference between submitting to general ideas in a religion l, compared to having to submit to every whim and desire of another fallible human being (husband). I am not Christian anymore so this doesn’t affect me but to think that women need an in between because we aren’t good enough to interpret the word of God ourselves is demeaning. Also what about all the other whims and desires of the husband? I hear people say everything she mustn’t obey unless it goes against God. But what if he wants to move away from her family just because? She has to obey because it’s not against god? How about demanding things like make him a sammich or get him beer etc or ordering her to do sexual acts she doesn’t feel comfortable with? None are so called against God. That means she has to always obey everything? How is that fair in this life? Try putting the shoe on the other foot and having to live in the lower position with only some promise of equality after death while your partner has all the privilege now! Power differences in marriage are never good. A fallible male human will ALWAYS abuse it at some point for his own favour.

      • Prophet Donald J Trump PBUH

        You need to watch The Red Pill Movie. if you think making a man a sandwhich is bad, you must rejoice in victory when he gives his life for you.

      • joesmith

        First will be last so I’m not sure an abusive husband will be equals in heaven. The truth is you were unable to interpret the word of god as your ideals and desire for power have led you down a path that resulted in you abandoning god. Also a man that desires power will abandon god as well. Sin and the removal of you from gods presences is absolutely equal to the sexes. Also why are you trolling a religious comment section. Celebrate your a/theism, which ever it is, with others that believe as you do. The truth is you troll these board because your master demands you slink about trying to steal souls like a thief.

  • Leandra “the Unicorn Reader” L

    I read this article. Still a feminist. Being a feminist does not dictate exactly how involved you have to be or which ideas you have to support. A feminist is simply someone that believes in the social, economical and political equality of men and women. It’s as simple as that.

    • joesmith

      Social equality is the ugly sea creature girl defined is talking about. Social equality on a grand scale is awesome.(we already had it) But the final conclusion is woman filing for a divorce because he doesn’t do it for her anymore. Just as evil as when he did it. It leads to women saying there is no way I would submit myself to a man. Which leads to “why are you calling out to a lord?” Don’t you know Jesus was a man? Are you under a man? That isn’t feminism. You just betrayed the cause. You must reject all forms of female submission if you are a feminist. Including all bible passages telling a woman to submit to her husband.

  • Becky

    I thought this article was on point! thank you!

  • Toby A.

    This is excellent. We are not to conform to the things of this world but to be transformed by the renewal of our minds!

  • Shanae Butterworth

    From even the young age of eight, I’ve been aware of the selfish and anti-God aspectof feminism. Thank you for posting this, it’s encouraging to know I’m not the only one!

  • Shanae Butterworth

    Even from the young age of eight, I’ve been aware of the selfish and anti-God aspects of feminism. Thanks for sharing this! It’s nice to know I’m not the only one!

  • Bethanie

    THANK YOU for putting into words what has been in my mind ever since feminism became so popular

  • Sorry you feel this way. May I suggest reading some of Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza’s work? She is Christian and a feminist.

    • ABCXYZ

      Julian I never use the F word but I would say it to your entitled fat face ! as will God soon enough!

      • Kitsunechan

        That comment is nasty, plain rude, and wholly unnecessary.

    • Michael

      Fiorenza is an apostate. Feminism is pure evil.

  • Whiz Wheeler

    Always hated femisim but this article explains why. It is truly against the gender roles he gave to men and women and for that I will always be against it. But we are living in the end times, why are we not surprised?

  • Prophet Donald J Trump PBUH

    Feminism is alive and well in the church, unfortunately.

    The relationship is about her
    The engagement is about her
    The wedding is about her
    The marriage is about her
    The kids are about her
    The divorce will be about her

    Stay single guys…..

  • Euodias Lee

    Can feminism be turned into something positive like fighting for girls(and for also poor boys) in poor countries like pakistan and india where they are married at a very young age and denied education because of caste and gender? Side note: I like a mixture of things catered to guys mostly like Star wars and Superheroes but also just like other girls, romance and pretty dresses. Is it ok for me?

  • Dami J

    I consider myself a first wave feminist as there are aspects of the other waves that are anti-Christian. And here’s the kicker I believe in submission and expect the man to be the head of the home. What I do not agree with is abuse of power, oppression and coercion which some men use as an excuse since they are the ‘head of the family’ anyway. That I fight against vehemently. I believe men should love their wives and wives should respect their husbands. I believe part of loving your wife is helping her if she is feeling overburdened with the housework especially in a home where two people have full time jobs. Some may argue that that is not respecting of gender roles but seeing your woman struggling with housework, cooking, kids etc and putting your feet up watching television because it is not a mans role doesn’t reek of love but selfishness. Likewise if my husband is struggling with the finances and I work, helping to contribute is me loving and helping to carry ‘one another’s burdens’. I don’t believe in role reversal. Men and women have different roles. But helping out each other from time to time shouldn’t be so frowned upon.

    • joesmith

      Basically you quoting the Bible but you needed a human created movement to really start getting passionate about your beliefs. Why because you love yourself and the idea of being a warrior. Everyone wants to be liked and a hero. Doing to make god happy just wasn’t really a selling point for you.

    • Jean

      Then why do couples say” we are pregnant” ? I never did understand why women and men are so adamant in saying that we have specific role sana then they go on and on and on about it being the wives role to submit and the husbands role to lead. All well and good, but then do this right people and let’s make sure we let women have their role that God gave to women only. Let the wife gave her role and say, “I am pregnant.”
      You all can’t have it both ways!! Stop straddling the fence and talking out of both sides of your mouths. Stop the double talk! If we are supposed to have specific roles, THEN, have specific roles and stop letting a husband say west he is not supposed to say since it is not his role and don’t jet him say ” we’re pregnant”.
      I am just sick and fed up with us letting the husband have his way, when he is not supposed have his way.

  • loves period dramas

    I can never accept complementarianism and its slavish devotion to legalistic gender roles. I will never accept it. This idea that complementarians believe the sexes are equal, but not in the same ways just reeks of Orwell’s Animal Farm – all humans are equal but some are more equal than others. It’s fluff and nonsense.

  • Jole

    firstly, i do thank you for writing a blog post on the subject. although i fundamentally disagree on virtually all levels, it’s an important conversation to have and one i hope we address more often. its just disappointing and frustrating to see yet another Christian post with no evidence to actually prove your argument. sure, you quote scripture, but there are no studies or academic references to back up anything said about feminism or what we actually stand for. it’s not fair to make blanket statements such as ‘almost all feminist groups strongly stand for ___ ‘ without any evidence to back it up. it’s the equivalent of me saying ‘almost all people who voted for Trump are racists’. without proof, the statement is worthless and socially irresponsible. (and no i’m not saying i believe that; i’m just using it as an example).

    on the subject of ‘Biblical gender roles’: only 100 years ago, when good Christian men were writing the laws based on the Bible and women were subordinate i.e. ‘respectful’ of their husbands, women were not even ‘persons’ under the law. they could not vote, they could not own property. they could not divorce their husbands for committing adultery (although men certainly could divorce their wives on that ground). wives could not sign contracts. this means that you could not even get a Facebook account without your husband’s permission. until recent years, women could not serve on a jury or practice law. without feminism, a husband could still legally rape his wife. and yes, these were all considered good law by the Christian church. i could go on and on if this is not enough for you. i know all this because i am a law student and have studied it. i could give case names and references but this is just a comment slot and i don’t want to turn it into a novel.

    i hope i don’t sound defensive (sorry, i know i do) but i mention this because i know women enjoy their legal rights, and i’m tired of seeing Christian women not do their homework, denounce feminism, and then sit back and enjoy all the benefits that feminists gave them. it’s not fair to call us ‘sinners’ yet you take so much pleasure in our sin. if you don’t like feminism so much and want to be ‘respectful’ of your husbands and your gender role, i suggest you give up all the legal rights that feminism gave you so at least you won’t be a hypocrite.

    • Valley Wild kitten

      Joke , you are right. Women who are against feminism, don’t realize what it was like for women before. let them give up all the rights that feminism created for them. Yes, men are some low down dirty creatures and they have created excuses to dominate and abuse us. Women better get some sense.
      Or they can keep kissing men’s butts.

    • Hannah B

      Hey Jole, I just wanted to tell you that while I’m not sure how to feel about feminism yet, I do appreciate how respectful you were in speaking about it. I’ve seen lots of women straight-up bashing the authors of this article, telling them they should be removed from society. Needless to say I’m glad to see people respecting others’ beliefs on here. Thank you. ❤️❤️

  • Olivia Green

    This quote that was used, “At its root, feminism is built upon a foundation completely devoid of God,” is completely wrong. It seems like you did not do your home work. The first feminist meeting was formed by a group of Quaker women in 1848. Oh and many of the famous feminists known today are also Christians including Lucretia Mott, Dorthy Day, Emily Dickinson, and Sojourner Truth. Also the UK Daily Mail is not a scholarly source, and statistics are also flawed. Your argument is not properly formed, which means that there are many holes in it. Come back when you have a fully formed one with the proper citations and resources.

    • Shanae B

      Wikipedia isn’t a good source of information honey, especially since it’s so easy for pretty much anyone to change information on that site. And the group of Quaker women hated being Quakers.

      • Olivia Green

        Hunt, Helen LaKelly. Faith and feminism: a holy alliance. New York: Atria Books, 2004.
        Here is the Bibliography on the information I got.
        Also Quakers did not believe in social hierarchy, so women and men had more equality, the 19th century, than any other women of the time.

        • Shanae B

          I’m not sure how often Helen LaKelly Hunt actually reads and understands the Bible. You should crack open your dust caked one and read it for yourself.

          • Olivia Green

            I actually go to Reformed Episcopal private school, and I just so happen to study the Bible every day more so than you probably do.

          • Shanae B

            Ok sweetie, I didn’t realize how young you are! 🙂

          • Saltasaurus

            What does that mean Shanae. I’m still not convinced that feminism and Christianity are incompatable Shanae.

          • Shanae B

            And that’s your problem. Also this particular comment has nothing to do with you Saltasaurus.

          • Joseph Kuzara

            Episcopalians are work salvationists, leave that church, water baptism does not refenerate our spirit, none can loose salvation once saved by Gods choice. Man doesnnot cooperate with God to be saved. Being Hostile instinctly towards Him in sin does He intervene unpon yoir will to keep you from rejecting the true Gospel of grace thrpugh the Gift of Faith and granted repentance from lies to the truth to be justified.the Holy Spirit regenerates your dead spirit upon hearing the true testimony of whom Jesus Is and Did in His death. Then your granted repentance and fiving the gift of faith to accept the truth to be justified and samctified unto Gld for good works lerformed by God in you. Gods performance of Good works is only our authentixation of salvation.

          • Olivia Green

            I don’t think you understand. I go to a reformed Episcopal school, but I am a prating Pentecostal. Regardless, I do not think it is right for you to be attacking someone’s denomination, and I doubt that God would approve of that to be honest. Also I recommend checking your spelling and grammar the next time you post.

          • Joseph Kuzara

            If you dont think it is ok to love by admonishing you about a false christian denomination, then you dont understand the Will of God nor His teachings. Both Episcopal and Pentecostal assemblies have false foundations by deviating from the teachings of scripture and gifts of the Spirit. I can see you are eucemenised, which would only be ok if the denominations were grounded in truth but these two assemblies falsely represent Jesus teachings. Regardless if you are thier for educational purposes only and not to learn thier doctrines, they are a false church and depending on what type of pentecostal assembly you attend as a home church determines what false teachings your being taught.

            It is my right as a christian to defend the faith, admonish others of falsehoods and seek to silence heretics whom seek to take away the freedom we have in Christ through faith and not works of the Law. Just as Apostle Paul did for our example to follow.

          • Shanae B

            It’s possible to read the Bible incorrectly and in a pick and choose way. I’m actually very sorry for you, especially if you’re not.

          • chirsc62

            Didn’t Jesus call passive aggression a gift of the spirit?

          • Shanae B

            No. If so what verse?

  • Lemuel Ogbunude

    This is wonderful, I am a guy and it isn’t really easy to talk about this issue to feminists. Love is only what we need, the society has made goals and getting a job look more important than a woman who has decided to stay home and train her children. Yes, women can work, and I do encourage it, but I get upset when someone just wants to get a Job not because they need it, but just to look good or so that they would not be looked down upon by other “strong” women. Jobs and accomplishments are not the source of happiness. Well, I feel being at home training children how to love, bonding with them is much more important and fulfilling than being the CEO of any company. The oppression of men on women too can only be solved by Love, by putting God first. I don’t see any reason why as a true Christian I will have any reason to oppress my fellow worker at the office or look down on someone because she is a woman, but all these happen because we forget God and don’t put him first. Again, this article is splendid.

    • chirsc62

      Of course, if the husband feels strongly he can stay at home and look after the children while the wife goes out to work, earns a good salary and has a fulfilling job. Or is that unchristian?

  • Simms

    As a woman and a woman that is currently working on getting back in-tune with God, THIS article is awesome! I’ve never really looked into feminism because the media always made it a big deal, but now I understand why I shouldn’t support it as a Christian woman. I will make sure to share this with other women and also do more research so that I can witness to others that don’t really understand what they do when they support this growing movement. Thank you!

  • Anna Rensfelt

    I have done things in my life I regret and I Will accept if god dont like it. I try to not be proud and stupid. I accept. I will Always try to do my best to be a good woman and human. But when god expect me to stay with a cheating husband who never act like he love me…
    For me feminism is to be respected and loved in your role as woman.

  • Boston

    Dear Anti-Woman,
    If you would like to spend your life submitting to a man good for you. If you have a mental health problem that tells you that a book that was translated thousands of times is the word of God good for you. Please, however, stay away from the rest of the women of the world. We are free spirits who do not need your toxic, rigid, control. We say no to slavery while you perpetuate it in the name of God. You are a disgust and an embarassment to our sisterhood. Please keep your distance from other women. You are dangerous. You make $$$ preaching nonsense. Thank you. Bye Bye.

    • Shanae B

      Feminism is anti-woman. If you really ‘feel’ this way why did you waste your time reading and commenting on this?

      • ChibiHoshi

        Can’t answer for Boston but

        For me it is always wise to research dangerous things to help protect against it. Would you let a snake near your children? Would you ignore the snakes all together or research where they live, their life span, what they normally hunt, which are Venomous and deadly and which are Constrictors and not dangerous.

        Knowledge is important so that you can be aware and avoid letting dangerous things near your children

  • Sam Jenkins

    I fully agree, there is nothing more dishonest than a Christian Feminist. After all, God made Eve from the rib of Adam to be his servant; the loyal hand that strokes the Head. She is not an equal. As you state, God did not make women in His likeness; he created her as one of ‘them’. There is no more slippery a serpant than a ‘Christian’ woman who asserts women are anything approaching Mans equal. She is even worse than those venomous Scientists and Geneticists whose aim is to vengefully overthrow the Credibility of Creation.

    • Shanae B

      You obviously have no real knowledge of the Bible. You should try reading it! If you’re incapable of that at least read Genesis 1:27.

      • David’n Kathi Hole

        Shanae B. I feel sad for you that you don’t draw your God-given power from the Holy Spirit that dwells within all believers but from your own earthly power that is placing you above the authority of Jesus Christ and cannot see where your worth truly lies from.

        • Shanae B

          I’m afraid you are mixed up in regards to myself. Sorry you misunderstood this particular comment.

        • Inge

          1Corinthians 11:12 – For as the woman [is] of the man, even so [is] the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

          How about that now,hey…there we have it equality is good.
          Your welcome now you are slightly more educated than you were before.

  • jeanmariesimpson

    So ignorant.

  • chirsc62

    I’d be interested in how Christian anti-feminists view women who are married in Church to an abusive and/or philandering husbands. Are they honor bound to stay in the marriage as Jesus did not like divorce and treat this as a cross to bear? Or could they embrace some form of feminism by freeing themselves from their misery?

    • Inge

      Free yourself , and find refuge in God. Always think about what will be better for you and if you have kids what will be better for them,keep them and yourself safe and away from danger . The Lord God is your refuge and safe place.

  • David’n Kathi Hole

    Thank you! I am having such a hard time finding a church that my family can attend that hasn’t been laced with some kind of feminism and now with female pastors I find it distasteful. Men are being robbed of their God-given manhood by these women and their denial of the curse! Thank you for affirming my suspicions!

    • Inge

      Here we have a prime example of modern day sexism, suck it up bro cause women are becoming empowered and there’s nothing you can do about because women are independent and radical doers.Women pastors are amazing they are sending out God’s word , like we’re all called to do , if you want to put a stop to that your not only sexist then but you also want to put a stop to the word meeting new ears.Quite disgusting how selfish and close minded some people are.Be considerate. Female is the future.Long live suffragism .

    • Shanae B

      There unfortunately are many churches infiltrated just as you say. But even though they’re very few, there are still some churches that still hold to the Bible on this!

      • Saltasaurus

        Where in the Bible does it say that feminism is incompatible with Christianity? Because I go to a 200 year old all girls Catholic school with a very popular feminist club and a religion teacher who is one of the most ardent feminists I’ve ever known. Are Catholics not real Christians? What church do you go to? What does it mean for a church to be “infiltrated” by feminism?

        • Shanae B

          the Last part of Genesis 3:16 is very suspicious. At first glance it could mean a desire to be with the husband. But how could it not mean something else, it’s been extremely suspicious to me for Years. Feminism teaches to degrade men. Degrade women who love being a wife or a mother instead of making bodily “choice’s”, who become an entrepreneur without a college degree, who live with self dignity through modesty. You’re still very young and there’s a ton you don’t know about yet.

          • Saltasaurus

            Wow! Everything you said about feminism is wrong! Have you ever talked to a real feminist in your life or did you just hear all that from your bible study classes? Feminism is not about “degrading men,” I don’t know where you got that from. Feminists have nothing against women who are wives and mothers. Feminism is about giving women the choice to follow whatever path they choose, whether it is considered traditionally feminine or not. Shaming women for choosing to be a wife or mother is actually pretty anti-feminist, as shaming things for being associated with women is just another form of misogyny. You’re old and it’s pretty clear there’s still a ton you don’t know about yet. But please, educate me on the things I need to learn about the world, Shanae.

          • Shanae B

            I’ve only met 3 or 4 feminists in my whole life who weren’t like What I stated over the many who have. Even they were still very spiteful and shamming to themselves and others. I was also part of a Bible study for 3 years in my early twenties where the leader was a feminist and very much so that way. The fact that you think misogyny is a thing (especially in today’s world) speaks volumes. I am older than you and have been on this earth longer than you have, you could try to take that into consideration. Also what I said about feminism is right, I’ve seen it everyday for years. The dictionary definition of feminism is inaccurate.

  • Hannah B

    Just want to clear something up: Kristen and Bethany constantly say in their blog posts and even in their book that women and men are PURPOSELY DIFFERENT, BUT EQUALLY IMPORTANT. They are not saying that women are inferior to men, they are not condoning abuse or slavery, and they are not being ignorant. They know that there is a God-given purpose for both men and women, but that those purposes are different. They are not putting down women, just lovingly stating their opinion. We don’t go around bashing your beliefs and calling you ignorant or stupid if you state that you’re an Atheist. It is THEIR decision what to believe. They are grown adults who can believe and say what they want, and they choose to speak it in LOVE. Stop being rude to someone who is not being rude and condescending to you, PLEASE. God bless.

  • Michelle Jiran

    I loved this article! It made me deeply proud as a feminist and non-christian. Feminism supports women doing what makes them fulfilled,either following a religious “blue -print” or obliterating gender roles.

    • Hannah B

      Hey, Michelle! While I am a Christian and not sure how I feel about feminism yet, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate how you kept your comment in a positive light and didn’t bash the character or worth of anyone who agrees with or wrote this article. It’s really encouraging to see that you didn’t tell anyone that they were toxic or crazy or should be “removed from society” or something to that effect, just because they aren’t feminists. Thanks for respecting the views of others and yourself, it’s really nice to see; and I hope we all can learn to handle situations like this kindly like you did. ❤️❤️

  • Andrew Chimasa

    Great article guys. Very insightful

  • Enjolras

    Moreover it is a shame, when there are intelligent girls (and yes there are many girls who are more intelligent than their fathers or husbands) who don’t get an education just because men are jealous and insecure and want women to stay ignorant and illiterate, just so that they can dominate and abuse them further, whilst the women don’t even have a chance to defend themselves, simply because they lack education.

    • Shanae B

      That’s a pretty spiteful remark. Education doesn’t equal intelligence. Education or intelligence doesn’t necessarily garrantee a woman (you or any person) self-defense either. Many people with great wisdom only have a high school diploma. Sometimes very big mistakes are made by people with masters degrees and PHD’s. Just think of the few rare surgeons who are over tired or drunk who end up leaving a surgical utensil in a paitent or cut a nerve or something.

      • Saltasaurus

        That doesn’t change the fact that women (or any marginalized group) being denied the same kind of education as men historically made it much harder for them to get ahead in the world and fight for equal rights. Is it not a bad thing that until pretty recently half the population was discouraged or straight up barred from getting the same level of education as the other? Going to college doesn’t make you a perfect human being who can do no wrong but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Also what does education have to do with self defense. There are classes where you can educate yourself on self defense, Shanae.

        • Chanmi Kim

          Well the things is, lack of education in certian parts of the world is not just an issue of gender inequality, but mainly political. Their political and even the economical situation doesn’t allow them to receive education. You can’t say that women are unable to receive proper education JUST because of men’s incompetency or jealousy–the whole idea of women getting education or not is funny because feminists tend to focus on “women” only. Yet, there are the same amount of children, men, disabled, poor, weak, who are unable to receive the same kind of education.

  • I totally agree, feminism is anti-God


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